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Puppy aggression or normal?

hcbeal

New Member
I'm new to this forum thing I hope I'm posting this right :/
I recently got 2 mastiff mix puppies they are 3/4 mastiff 1/4 lab. Both two completely different personalities, both males. One is very shy, but still lovable just not as outgoing as the other... Well here's the issue recently he has been snapping at my son who is 3 (he does tend to maul them but also has growled and snapped at my daughter who is 11 just when she put her hand out :( is there any suggestions? I tell him NO and then have my son go to him often and pet him it doesn't happen all the time they have been here almost 2 weeks and he has done it 4-5 times. But I am just at a loss.. I brought home a Saint Bernard to my daughter when she was two and she sacked her around, played with her all the time, and the St. Bernard never was like that!
 

DennasMom

Well-Known Member
Hi! Posting came through just fine.
Congratulations on getting TWO puppies. That does make for double-trouble. :)

This is the shy one snapping, right? My first guess, is that he's in a fear stage and needs some confidence boosters. Also, be sure he has a 'safe' place to retreat to - like a crate - where your son will not bother him - ever. If he's feeling cornered, he needs to know where he can "flight" to, so he doesn't have to "fight".

Keep up with socializing - and socialize and train both puppies independently as well as together. If the shy one only goes out with the more dominant puppy, he'll always defer to the other's lead, and never learn to really think for himself - he may also bond more with the other puppy and less with his intended human. Take him everywhere you can - the hardware store, garden supply store, pet stores (in a cart if he's still too young to have all his shots), walk around the neighborhood, watch baseball games, etc.

Anytime he's being calm and quiet and confident, give him praise, and/or a treat. If he goes to investigate something new, give him lots of praise!
If he looks to you to see how he should react to something - LOTS of praise!

How old are the puppies? Two weeks is still not a long time, even for little puppies. Short attention spans and building memory for the rules will require a lot of reminders about what's acceptable and what's NOT acceptable.

Also, when you have to tell him "NO"... re-direct him to something you can praise him for - like grabbing a toy instead of a finger or ask him to go sit on his bed, so you can reward for doing as asked. Try to tell him what you WANT him to do as well as what NOT to do.

I'm just guessing here, but don't boys play harder than girls... a harder 'energy', even if physically it's still a "sacking"? That might be confusing the puppy, if the humans get to be violent with the puppies, but the puppies aren't allowed to retaliate with the same energy. Yes, they can learn that their rules are different from the 2-leggeds, it will just take extra consistency and patience.

Those are just my thoughts - hopefully you'll get some more ideas on things to try from some of the mastiff experts around here.
 

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
Great advice, Tina! I'm curious as well as to the pup's ages. Regardless of their ages, they are stressed out to the new environment. Do you know their history? Were they around children? Were they neglected and/or abused? Do you know what kind of mastiff? Are they siblings? Is this your first mastiff pups?
 

hcbeal

New Member
Dennasmom thanks so much!! Great info!! The pups are 9 weeks so still very young! I feel like the shy one who is the snippy one is more so at the end of the day, well and although I don't condone it I totally understand! Lol
 

hcbeal

New Member
Musicdeb I do agree with you the black more outgoing one I think is not stressed but definitely the shy one is! They are brothers, their mom was 1/2 lab 1/2 French mastiff and their dad was full blooded mastiff. They were not socialized to kids, the breeders both had jobs and I'm not sure how much attention the pups got :( do you think it was good that I two? Cause I originally was only getting the shy one which at the time I didn't realize his fears...
 

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
You're brave to take on 2 puppies but it can be done. Socialization is key. I would recommend keeping pups on leash around kids until they get used to them. Do you have crates for them (2 of them)? Do not allow pup and child in the same room to play or alone. Children should stay off the floor while pup is in the room. Children on the floor signals to most pups that they are play mates. Pups play rough because they are pups.

It's probably good that you have siblings and they can have the comfort of each other in the new surroundings.

Since they are your first mastiff pups, here's some info to help you out with the young pups.

First, you want to crate train the pup. Make sure you have a blanket, stuffed animal (about their size) and white noise (ticking clock or ipod with soft music) so the pup can sleep. The pup is used to cuddling with siblings.

Second: you want to keep the pup in a room with a family member. Mastiffs need to be near their family members.

Third: you want to start the pup’s food regimen. Are you feeding them what the breeder fed them? If yes, ok. If not, you need to do a slow transition to the new food. Mastiffs are allergic to chicken and grain in kibble. Slow transition is to feed 1/4 of new food with 3/4's of old food for 3-4 days. Transition to 1/2 new and 1/2 old food for 3-4 days. Transition to 3/4 new and 1/4 old for 3-4 days. Transition to 100% new food. If at anytime the pup has diarrhea, return to former transition amounts until diarrhea stops.

Osteochondrosis: An Orthopedic Disease in Large Dog Breeds


Fourth: You want to keep the leash on the pup for a few hours each day while in the house so they gets used to it.

Fifth: Keep the pup away from dog areas unless they have had their 2nd set of shots leaving the pup prone to getting parvo or other illnesses. Keep the pup in your yard and place newspapers down where they will walk on the ground. This is very important!

Sixth: Start basic commands. Train for about 5 minutes per day and slowy increase the training time. Teach one command at a time. Once they master one command, move onto another command.


Mastiffs can be extremely stubborn and if you get frustrated with them, they will shut down. Mastiffs do not do well with yelling or hitting. Hitting can result in some unwanted mastiff behavior meaning fear aggression, which equals biting.

Number one command is sit. Teach the pup to sit, by placing a treat in front of his head and move it to the back causing him to sit to get the treat. When the pup sits, tell them good sit and give them the treat.

Second command should be "focus/look" This will help you tremendously when the pup is over 100 lbs. Put the pup into sit. With a treat in your hand (let the pup smell it), put the treat up to your eyes and tell the pup to look or focus. They may only do this for about 1-2 seconds. As soon as they look at your eyes, tell them good look or good focus and give the treat. Some mastiffs (DDBs generally) do not like to look anyone in the eyes for long because that means a challenge to them. Titan is up to 35 seconds of looking at me.

Other commands to teach is stay, come, leave it and drop it.

When you are training and when the pup does not do as you ask, then tell him no no no and redirect back to command in a normal voice. The only time a stern and somewhat loud NO should be used is when they are doing something that can cause harm to themselves or others.

For example, when I'm doing the look at me training with Titan. He will look at me and then his eyes will move to the left or right. I say, "no no no, look at me" and he returns to the look to my eyes.

When they do what you want them to do, get all giddy and excited and say, "Yes, good look!" I clap, giggle, and sometimes do a little dance. My dog looks at me like, really woman?

Puppies should not do any heavy exercise or walking for the first 1-2 years. Stairs should be maneuvered while on leash (even in the house) especially going down the stairs. Stairs should have carpet or rubber matting to give the pup traction. Most mastiffs (DDBs especially) can be very lazy but they still need to exercise. Puppies should not be walked for more than 15-20 minutes for the first 6-8 months and do your best to avoid heavy running or jumping for the first 1-2 years. Excessive jumping, running and long walks (1-2 hours) can cause hip, elbow, knee and joint injuries.

Remember, mastiffs do not tolerate heat. In the heat, reduce walk/exercise times. Have clean water available at all times. I freeze towels to either place on Titan or put on the floor for him to lie on in the summer to cool him off. Buy a kiddies’ pool for the pup to play in to keep cool.

Mastiffs should not be neutered/spayed until 18 months to 2 years. NO MATTER what the vet says. Early neutering can cause growth problems.

Enjoy your baby! Have lots of patience! The pup will reward you with love and loyalty!
 

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
Forgot to mention, remind the kids to not play rough with the pup because pup will play rough with them.

Give them time to become secure in their new surroundings. Train them, walk them, cuddle with them to develop a bond. Have the kids feed them by hand after you have taught the pups to sit. If the pup grabs the food harshly, tell them easy and reward them when they take the food easy.

Only allow the children to feed them while pup is on leash and you are supervising. Remind children to NEVER take food or toy from the pups until they have had a chance to decompress from the stress and you have trained them.

Take children on walks with you. Walking and training are great bonding tools.

You'll get a kick out of training 2 pups and watching them do the same identical command.

I had a german shepherd/chow and adopted a siberian husky. I was training the siberian husky because the GS/chow was already trained. In the background, you could see the GS/chow doing all of the commands as I was training the SH. It was so cute and funny.
 

hcbeal

New Member
All mastiffs are allergic to chicken? I was feeding them what the breeder fed but it wasn't puppy chow it was Rachael Ray chicken and veggies and I felt like one of them was a tad underweight since we got them. So I'm switching to eukanuba puppy chow.
 

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
All mastiffs are allergic to chicken? I was feeding them what the breeder fed but it wasn't puppy chow it was Rachael Ray chicken and veggies and I felt like one of them was a tad underweight since we got them. So I'm switching to eukanuba puppy chow.
Not all mastiffs but many have issues with grains and/or chicken. I would reconsider the eukanuba as well. There's dozens of threads in the nutrition section about which foods are good for mastiff pups.
 

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
Oh no serious? What do you suggest?
Like I said there are a whole bunch but some good ones are Acana Pacifica, orijen 6 fish, Earthborn holistics Great Plains feast, coastal catch or meadow feast, some people like taste of the wild Sierra mountain or blue buffalo wilderness duck or salmon.
 

Iymala

Well-Known Member
A lot of what food is available to you depends on the size of your city. If you have specialty pet stores then you have a wider options. The second best option is Farm and feed (tractor supply co, etc) and last being Petco or Petsmart. You will likely not find anything decent at your grocery stores. The best food for your dog is the food it does best on. Not every dog, like stated above can handle the same foods based on nutrient density.

I am currently feeding Earthborn Hollistics Primitive Natural and love it. Nice small kibble and claymore thinks it's tasty. I personally have fed Orijen Large Breed Puppy and Earthborn Hollistics Primitive Natural to my growing EM and am incredibly happy with the results. Slow steady growth, he enjoys his food, and the ingredients are, IMO, the best available in commercial dog food. This does not mean it will work, or has worked for every puppy, but it is what works for us.

Here is a list I came up with :

If you are looking for a no grain kibble (most have locators on their website to find retailers near you):

Orijen - Large Breed Puppy, Adult, 6fish, or Red Regional - organic, high quality ingredients, 6 unique meat sources. Found at pet specialty stores

Taste of the Wild- great quality at a cheaper price, 5 unique meat sources, found at many local feed and farm stores. 3 formulas to choose from.

Earthborn Holistic: All Grain Free Formulas. Depending on allergies you may want to forgo Primitive Natural due to chicken inclusion.

Fromm Grain Free Surf and Turf- great quality food from a great privately owned company. They use top of the line ingredients and while their prices are on the high end you are getting your monies worth. Can be harder to find, but look for it at your specialty pet food stores.

Innova: EVO: - one of the best grain free foods out there. High calorie, high protein (with 4 unique protein sources), low carb and packed full of nutrients. Limited Ingredient formulas. While it is a great option for a grown Mastiff, it is not a balanced formula for a growing puppy.

Merrick Grain Free (Previously Before Grain): Buffalo, Salmon, Chicken - very good quality food made by Merrick but new addition as of last year. Numbers have changed to make this only appropriate for adult Mastiffs, over 2.3% calcium to 2.5% calcium. Good option for a full grown adult. Not appropriate for growing puppies.

Acana -Grain Free - this food has 3 unique protein sources and is of the same makers of Orijen. It is a more moderate food in terms of calories and protein but has less meat content as well. Potato is the second ingredient in this formula.

Instinct- Rabbit - the other instinct formulas have too high mineral counts for a growing pup, but the Rabbit formula is right on the mark. It has top notch ingredients and a unique protein source. It does not contain chicken, other than chicken fat and is a nice kibble for a dog with allergies.

Canidae ALS Grain-Free- good quality 4 unique meat sources, found also at farm and feed stores, good price for the quality and 2 formulas to choose from.

Wellness Core- great quality ingredients but high price tag, comes in adult, reduced fat and ocean. I have found ocean harder to find. Often problems with dogs wanting to eat the food. Apparently not the tastiest. Petco.

Blue Buffalo Wilderness: Duck, Chicken and Salmon - New improved formula that is a solid product. Higher in calories and more suited for an adult Dane then a growing puppy, but the only grain free option that PetSmart carries. Petsmart.Petco.

Go! Fit Grain Free- Great quality grain free Adult formula. Multiple protein sources and first 6 ingredients are meats and 2 of those are meals. Impressive formula but not suitable for a growing puppy.

Natural Balance Potato and Duck or Sweet Potato and Venison- Not the best choice but if your location is remote and your pet has allergies it could work for you. Limited ingredient formulas, nice for sensitive stomachs and allergies. Petco.

Nature's Domain (Costco)- Very similar to ToTW Pacific Stream but a little bit lower in quality. Great option for an affordable grain free and on par with Natural Balance but for around 25bucks a bag or so. Costco

NutriSource Grain Free: Medium quality grain free option with 2 meat sources chicken and fish meal. It is a little heavy on the peas with the 3rd 4th and 5th ingredient all being a pea source which would likely put it up there in the running for top ingredient with chicken.

Grain Inclusive:

Artemis - One of the best quality grain inclusive foods on the market. Great quality ingredients and several options for formulas.

Acana - several different grain inclusive options made with organic. local Canadian ingredients. have 3 unique protein sources in each.

Earthborn Holistic- Good quality Puppy Vantage formula and formulas for adult dogs. Petco. Feed store.

Go! Sensitivity and Shine- Good grain inclusive options with novel proteins and oatmeal or other unqiue carbohydrate sourcs. Good for a dog with allergies.
Fromm: Any food from their product line is top of the line. They are a privately owned company that focuses on quality and is a higher price tag but worth the cost. Can sometimes be found in specialty pet stores.

Canidae ALS- great ingredients and found at farm and feeds. Good cost per bag and a solid company. Not good for sensitive stomachs and not all dogs can handle this food, I suggest a small bag to start with to make sure it works. *This is one of my favorite grain inclusive formulas* Feed stores.

California Natural: High quality limited ingredient kibble. Great meat content. Harder to find and pricey. Often found at specialty pet stores.

Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul Large Breed Puppy - Great food for the price. Quality ingredients and great meat content. Not great for sensitive stomachs and I would suggest a small bag to try out before purchasing and commiting to the lable. Also found at farm and feed stores.

Innova - top of the line dog food with great ingredients but pricey. Often found at specialty dog stores. They have a few different formulas inclusing a red meat formula.

Merrick: Has many different flavors and seems to be quite tasty. Quality ingredients and great meat content. Very cutesy names and priced around the same as the lower end grain frees. Uses a good amount of grains but they are on the higher quality scale. Uses around 4 unique meat sources as well. Found at pet specialty stores and farm and feed stores.

Solid Gold Hund n Flocken(puppy): designed based on diets of European Great Danes years ago. It is pretty heavy on grains but they use high quality ingredients. You are looking at a nice price tag on this brand tho. Petco.

Wellness 5 mix: same taste issues but great ingredients. Carries about the same price tag as the CORE label but has a few different options as far as formulas. Petco.

Mid- range Grain Inclusives (Quality of Ingredients):

Eagle Pack Hollistic Large and Giant Breed Puppy: Has a slightly higher meat content than the Original and does not use corn in this formula. Can be hard to find depending where you live and I would look at specialty pet stores and farm and feeds. It carries a pretty decent price tag as well.

NutriSource: I like their Preformance Formula but I do not like the inclusion of beet pulp or how high it is on the ingredient list. Middle of the road option

Eagle Pack Original Large and Giant Breed Puppy: Often used by Dane breeders because studies were done and it was specifically made for the giant breed puppies. I personally am not a fan of the ingredients, but many Danes have been raised on it sucessfully. It simply has too many grains and corn to be higher imo. Pricey for the ingredients.
Go!Daily Defene: Only 1 to 2 named meat ingredients, but use rice and oatmeal for carbohydrate sources

Precise Precise Plus: the new endorsement to replace Eagle Pack by The Great Dane Lady. It is a decent kibble but lacks in quality. Grain heavy. I am not sure where it is located. Very similar quality and composition as EP.

Blue Buffalo: They make a few formulas that are of decent quality and very accesable. They can be found at Petsmart and petco.

Kirkland Chicken and Rice - mid range dog food at an affordable price. It is found at Costco

+ These are the commonly available food options off the top of my head. I am sure there are other good options out there.
 

hcbeal

New Member
Well good news!! Coal is much less timid!! He has actually come out of his shell a lot!! :)

But here's my next question... I need help with the command COME! As you know I have brother puppies and when they are playing or exploring, they look at me as if to say give me a break lady and go in their marry way!! My St. Bernard was the same way :/ our chocolate lab is a huge people pleaser and needs attention 24/7 so when you say come he gladly comes, actually he is usually ride beside you, which is actually annoying!! I'm usually telling him go play! So I'd like to find a happy medium with the puppies :)
 

NeSaxena

Well-Known Member
Here's what worked for me - Boone was struggling with "come" as well, the first couple of days. I used to make him sit, stay, then walk away a couple of paces, sit down on my haunches, show him the treat and say "come". As soon as he got to me, treat and praise. The key was getting down close to his level, the standing didn't work. When he started responding every time, I started calling him while standing, once every three "comes". Once he was consistently coming when I called, I started making him stay, go to another room, then call. When he arrived, treat + praise. Pretty soon, he was coming wherever I was standing.

With two puppies, it might take longer for you. I recommend practicing the "come" command separately with both the pups, before trying to call them together. This way, they won't be able to distract each other while the actual training is happening, and when the need arises for both of them to follow, it'll happen :)