So confused on what and how much to feed 12 week old bullmastiff

[Mollys dad]

Hey gang...
Lots of good info here - maybe too much for me to comprehend! We are feeding Molly what the breeder was feeding: Blue Buffalo Longevity for puppies. She was being fed 1/2 cup 3 times/day. Vet said at 12 weeks to increase to 3/4 or 1 cup 3 times/day - she is a tad over 20lbs now. Is that too much or too little?

I've read that you should feed pups no more than 26% protein to keep from rapid growth. Lots of posts mention here to go with foods that have higher protein but use calcium levels as the limiting growth factor. What is correct? When do I switch to adult food?

I want to change over to Taste of the Wild because I can get it easily local. There are several types. I read here that Sierra mountain is the right blend - why is that? If I change food types and go through the change process, how much food to feed her of the different brand?

 

[Smart_Family]

You feed her what's on the bag to start and adjust as necessary. Besides the two puppy formulas, which you can feed but aren't necessary Sierra mountain is the only one that has the correct calcium for mastiffs under 2. You would need to do a slow transition over from the blue buffalo at 3-5 days of 75% blue buffalo, 25% totw then 3-5 days of 50% bb, 50% totw followed by 3-5 days of 25% bb, 75% totw before going completely to the totw. Some people feed puppy food but its more of a marketing gimmick in my opinion. The Sierra mountain is an all life stages food that's appropriate for pups thru adults.

 

[Iymala]

Ditto what Smart said. Hereis some information regarding your question about protein.

Second, now talking about commercial kibble there is good and there is bad. I personally feel dogs do better on a grain free- low carb diet than a grain inclusive one. With that said, not all grain free diets are equal. You have some companies that use the trend of grain free as a marking food and still produce a subpar kibble. Dogs have a short digestive tract common in carnivores unlike true omnivores who have a longer digestive tract to properly utilize nutrients in grains and vegetables. A grain free kibble that simply substitutes potatoes or peas for grain is not a "better" food, but sometimes a good options for dogs with allergies or intolerance.

Now to touch on protein. It has absolutely no detrimental affect on skeletal growth and is one of the healthiest source of calories a dog can consume along with fat. I know it is hard when your breeder is telling you one thing (low protein - which some of the old school breeders on the forums preach as it was the standard for so long before there were other options) but there is scientific evidence that directly refutes this recommendation.(better than just my opinion)

Skeletal Diseases of the Growing Dog by Daniel Richardson DVM
https://www.msu.edu/~silvar/hips.htm

Nutrition and Skeletal Health in Dogs: Relationship of Nutrition to Developmental Skeletal Disease in Young Dogs by Daniel C. Richardson & Phillip W. Toll
http://www.joint-health-for-dogs.com...tion-dogs.html

Optimal feeding of large breed puppies by Jennifer Larsen DVM, MS
http://www.lgd.org/library/Optimal%2...%20puppies.pdf

Growth and Skeletal Development Growth and Skeletal Development in Great Dane Pups Fed Different Levels of Protein Intake Published by the Journal of Nutrition
(University of Utrecht study)
http://files.championpetfoods.com/Hi...reed_Study.pdf

Dr. Becker: Why "Overgrowing" Your Large Breed Puppy is Dangerous
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites...reed-puppy.aspx

Developmental orthopedic disease in large-breed puppies by Ed Kane, PhD
http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm.../detail/804547

Another thing to touch on is premium quality grain free foods are often higher in calories than grain inclusive foods. This does not actually translate into more calories fed per day to your puppy. Below is a hypothetical break down of actual intake with the general rule that you only feed 2/3rs of a grain free kibble that you would feed of a high quality grain inclusive kibble. If you are feeding around 9-10 cups you would be feeidng around 6c- 7c TOTW.

8c grain inclusive at 22% protein and 400cal = 1.76c protein and 3200 calories
5c grain free at 32% protein and 370cal = 1.6c protein and 1850 calories

What is interesting to note is that the protein levels are not directly related to the caloric levels in foods. It is everything else in the food that is pushing the caloric intakes up and down. Kibble's heavy in carbohydrates also contribute to the kcal amount and are not as beneficial to the body as protein and fats. Grain proteins take longer in the digestive system to break down and can often lead to a lot of the kibble's grain nutrients never being utilized and being eliminated from the body.

 

[Sadies Mom]

The TOTW Puppy formulas are also an All Life Stages food. Limiting protein is a myth. It is the Calcium and Phosphorus levels that are important in a giant growing puppy.

 

[Mollys dad]

I read that TOTW is made by a company that has a spotted history with quality control. If money and availibilty were not an object, what do you folks feel is the best kibble?

 

[Iymala]

Orijen by far has the best quality ingredients and sources, but it does not work with every dog.

Earthborn Holistic is what I feed and many others here. I like the quality of the food and how it does with my dogs. Earthborn also has never had a recall. They produce and pack their own food and do not co pack for other companies.

 

[Sadies Mom]

The best kibble a is the kibble your dog does best on. Some dogs just don't do well on some brands or flavors. I tried all sorts of kibble for Sadie that had been recommended here on the forum, that other dog owner feed their dogs, but Sadie did do well on any of them. Let you dog tell you what is best for him or her. Of course you help with guidance keeping in mint the calcium and phosphorus levels, I hope you get what I mean. Typing on the the stupid phone.

 

[Robtouw]

I've owned mastiffs for 20 years, before grain free, watching levels was popular or even thought of. Research and read what people suggest and do what feels best in your circumstance. I have always kept my boys on a good puppy food for the first 3-4 months then slowly transitioned to an adult feed. I am not apprehensive about formula levels of calcium nor phosphorus. I have kept protein levels below 27% (personal preference). I've found that a grain free diet keeps gas at a tolerant level. Every dog's stomach is different and you will go through some trials to find the right feed. Use the suggested amount on the bag as a beginning and add/subtract to the amount based on what your dog eats or asks for.

Blue is a good beginning choice. TOW is a decent food, I've used it quite a bit over the last five years. Each flavor affected the stomach a bit differently but overall a good choice. TOW is produced by Diamond, which has a shady history. They are fond of the dollar not the pet. I do recommend emailing them and asking for recalls and formula changes which they will do. My current pup was on Innova LG BD Puppy until 4 months after a few intrim changes, TOW until age 1 and now is on Authority for maintainence.

Please watch for citric acid in whatever feed product you purchase, it is a popular preservative, extends shelf life but a high contributor to bloat.

 

[thelady_v2010]

I feed Earthborn.

For amounts, go by what she looks like. Can you see her last 2 ribs? If not, then cut back a tiny bit. If you can see more, add a little. Food amount has been a struggle for me. Another thing I watch for is his poop. Is it solid followed by a little bit of the "soft serve" poop? If so that tells me I am feeding a tad bit too much. I also weigh on a regular basis. Is growth slow and steady? Did he not gain at all in 2 weeks? If so, I should add a tiny bit a day and see how that goes. I would not add an entire cup a day. Start with adding half a cup a day and wait a week to see what the results are.

I have had a hard time because my puppy never seems satisfied, no matter how much I feed him. I feel bad because he seems hungry ALL the time.

 

[Smart_Family]

Earthborn is very similar to totw in ingredients and price and their company hasn't had a history of recalls or issues. I fed it for two years and only stopped recently because its very hard to get where I live. There are a couple Earthborn's you can feed: Coastal Catch, Meadow Feast and Great Plains Feast.

 

[Abel]

Sorry to hijack, does anyone recommend which earthborn to feed? Why is primitive instinct to good to feed to a pup?

 

[thelady_v2010]

Meadow Feast has chicken, so if you are elminating chicken, that one would be a no go. It is good because of the calcium/phosphorous ratios. I feed Coastal Catch. I tried to add Great Plains Feast a couple weeks ago and he got bad watery diarhea.

 

[Smart_Family]

Sorry to hijack, does anyone recommend which earthborn to feed? Why is primitive instinct to good to feed to a pup?

The primitive natural has chicken and the ratio of calcium to phosphorus is on the highest of okay. The other three grain frees are approrpriate.

 

[Smart_Family]

Meadow Feast has chicken, so if you are elminating chicken, that one would be a no go. It is good because of the calcium/phosphorous ratios. I feed Coastal Catch. I tried to add Great Plains Feast a couple weeks ago and he got bad watery diarhea.

Where are you seeing that meadow feast has chicken? The primitive Natural is the only one that has chicken on the website.

 

[thelady_v2010]

Where are you seeing that meadow feast has chicken? The primitive Natural is the only one that has chicken on the website.

I mixed them up. Sorry.

 

[Smart_Family]

I mixed them up. Sorry.

No worries, just making sure I hadn't gone crazy haha

 

[Abel]

The primitive natural has chicken and the ratio of calcium to phosphorus is on the highest of okay. The other three grain frees are approrpriate.

Thank you for clearing that up, I'm gonna start with the coastal catch, I don't give him any fish or fish oil supplements, would this be a good start?