Sometimes consistent discipline sucks

[MandyLionRock]

I rushed home from work and skipped a gym workout in favor of instead doing a jog/walk with diesel. I get home and take him out back to potty first per usual and when he is done I tell him to come in and he refuses. He plops to the ground where he is in his most defiantly stubborn manner ever. I have been trying to get him to give into stern verbal
Commands during stubborn times rather than having to physically guide him... Something we are working on right now and some days it goes quite well. Not today. I finally had to give in and lead him back in by the collar. And now I can't go straight on our walk as planned because that is a huge happy rewarding thing for him. So frustrated. He is now having to lay patiently and wait until I determine he has forgotten about his bad behavior and will associate the walk with his good behavior instead. Sighs. My stubborn little brat. I adore him but he is not an "easy" dog. Not at all.


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I would not refuse him the walk. Dogs are not like children in the sense that they understand why they are punished once the initial correction has occurred.
Here is what I would do...
Buy a lightweight and easy to clean leash and let him roam wearing it. Call him... whenever he doesn't listen grab the leash and pull him towards you. He doesn't need to get punished but rather be shown that once you give a command there is no way out of it.
Don't lose your temper, don't get frustrated. Stay calm, firm and kind. Remember that these guys are stubborn so you have to learn to be absolutely consistent without any negative emotions.
Good luck.

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[karennj]

That is good advice. I prefer not to move my dog around by grabbing his collar so if I was in that situation I would use a leash as well for better control. Sometimes moving backward quickly while calling will help them to move forward.

 

[Yamizuma]

That is good advice. I prefer not to move my dog around by grabbing his collar so if I was in that situation I would use a leash as well for better control. Sometimes moving backward quickly while calling will help them to move forward.

Agreed


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[Nik]

That is good advice. I prefer not to move my dog around by grabbing his collar so if I was in that situation I would use a leash as well for better control. Sometimes moving backward quickly while calling will help them to move forward.

In our early training days I always had the leash in the backyard. Now he typically comes when it is time to go in. Luckily when I grab his collar he stays right with me and it's really more of a guide and reminder to him that it isn't his choice. I'm not really tugging or pulling when I bring him in this way. Just a light hand resting on the collar. But the point is I should not have had to even cross the yard and to do that much and he knows it. But he is a stubborn butt sometimes so reminders are always good


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[Nik]

I would not refuse him the walk. Dogs are not like children in the sense that they understand why they are punished once the initial correction has occurred.
Here is what I would do...
Buy a lightweight and easy to clean leash and let him roam wearing it. Call him... whenever he doesn't listen grab the leash and pull him towards you. He doesn't need to get punished but rather be shown that once you give a command there is no way out of it.
Don't lose your temper, don't get frustrated. Stay calm, firm and kind. Remember that these guys are stubborn so you have to learn to be absolutely consistent without any negative emotions.
Good luck.

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I didn't refuse him the walk. I just delayed it for a few minutes. He still got the walk. I just didn't want him to associate stubborn behavior with a reward. In our house we practice NILF so everything he likes has to be earned. He earned the walk by calmly "staying" in a "down" for several minutes. I don't really think of the delay as a "punishment" but instead as him having not yet "earned" the walk. Had he come in when called promptly and then sat nice while I harnessed him that would have been an earned walk immediately.


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[MandyLionRock]

I didn't refuse him the walk. I just delayed it for a few minutes. He still got the walk. I just didn't want him to associate stubborn behavior with a reward. In our house we practice NILF so everything he likes has to be earned. He earned the walk by calmly "staying" in a "down" for several minutes. I don't really think of the delay as a "punishment" but instead as him having not yet "earned" the walk. Had he come in when called promptly and then sat nice while I harnessed him that would have been an earned walk immediately.


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Makes sense.

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[BAMCB]

This is nice for me to read(not that I wish it upon you!) but our 6yr old rescue has this very irritating way of just plopping down when she does not want to listen. This can be quite annoying! Especially if I am needing compliance because the toddler(potty training) has to run to the bathroom. Putting a leash on worked in the beginning but now only a treat will get her to come IF she decides it's a good enough treat for her giving in. I was not sure where to go with this but I see some good ideas here I can start. Thanks!!

 

[Boxergirl]

This is nice for me to read(not that I wish it upon you!) but our 6yr old rescue has this very irritating way of just plopping down when she does not want to listen. This can be quite annoying! Especially if I am needing compliance because the toddler(potty training) has to run to the bathroom. Putting a leash on worked in the beginning but now only a treat will get her to come IF she decides it's a good enough treat for her giving in. I was not sure where to go with this but I see some good ideas here I can start. Thanks!!

I'm going to suggest you play a boomerang game. One person on one side of the yard and someone on the other side, closer in the beginning and build up the distance. Really yummy treats, call her, and boomerang her back and forth. I made mine sit when they reached me and allow a collar touch. It worked well for some of my more stubborn foster dogs by making a recall into a game. Also running backwards while she's on leash (formal training time is good for this) and having yummies. After she gets the idea then you can start sporadically giving the treats. Might not work for her, but who knows?

 

[tmricciuto]

That's a great idea Boxergirl.

 

[Nik]

Boxergirl - yes we love the boomerang game too! Played it a lot in earlier training. Sean used to get jealous that Diesel always ran to me so much faster than to him. Lol


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[Boxergirl]

It's also good for wearing them out. Tired dogs are good dogs. Lol. Just like kids.

 

[BAMCB]

Thanks boxergirl! I will definitely try that I have found some treats she seems to really like so hopefully she will have more motivation. Lol my dad really likes her and we head to his house a lot for free run time in his fully fenced huge yard. I know he would help with that game.

 

[season]

You have less than 2 seconds to praise or correct a behavior. After that you've lost the opportunity. The reason your dog is being "stubborn" is because it works for them. Dogs will do what works. Simple as that. You can use any kind of "voice" you want to but if your dog isn't listening it isn't working. No need to get frustrated. Your dog knows what you know and it knows what you don't. You can fake it with your dog. They will let you know what you're doing right and wrong.


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[NYDDB]

You have less than 2 seconds to praise or correct a behavior. After that you've lost the opportunity. The reason your dog is being "stubborn" is because it works for them. Dogs will do what works. Simple as that. You can use any kind of "voice" you want to but if your dog isn't listening it isn't working. No need to get frustrated. Your dog knows what you know and it knows what you don't. You can fake it with your dog. They will let you know what you're doing right and wrong.


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"You can fake it with your dog." Did you mean, "can't?" Otherwise, I am curious as to what you mean...

 

[babyjoemurphy]

I love this thread.

Oh the stubborn Mastiff.......I'm not sure but I think it's tattooed on Lincs brain lol
Just over the past week he has become so Flippin bad. He sits his arse down and I seriously think I hear him say "No, make me"

He has found his old love of rocks again and he defies me every step of the way when he has one. He won't come or drop it unless I have a super high reward. Surf and turf kinda reward.
Oh did I mention he owns my ass. He has learned through rock chewing that if he waits me out there is gonna be something amazing in his mouth.......damn smart dog.
Gotta change my tactics before "come" turns into "run"

Thanks for the ideas

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[tmricciuto]

I took the trick from someone else on the forum. When I say come I have a treat hidden in my hand behind my back. Whoever (Bella) chooses to sit on the grass and not come doesn't get the treat. She always comes when she see's Sage eating the treat but no praise for not listening. and if they don't drop what's in their mouth when I say out they get me going into the mouth...and they pretty much hate that.

 

[tmricciuto]

I am done being their friend at this point because they are really testing me. I was talking to them today when my husband was in the kitchen and he said I sounded like a drill Sargent...but they both listened to me. I have realized that they need to see me as leader before I can be all gooey friendly at this testing stage

 

[Nik]

I took the trick from someone else on the forum. When I say come I have a treat hidden in my hand behind my back. Whoever (Bella) chooses to sit on the grass and not come doesn't get the treat. She always comes when she see's Sage eating the treat but no praise for not listening. and if they don't drop what's in their mouth when I say out they get me going into the mouth...and they pretty much hate that.

Omg I do this same thing with the drop it command! Sean gets so grossed out because I emerge covered in slime everytime but it works! Diesel drops it more and more often


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[tmricciuto]

Hahaha. It is pretty gross though


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[Nik]

I am done being their friend at this point because they are really testing me. I was talking to them today when my husband was in the kitchen and he said I sounded like a drill Sargent...but they both listened to me. I have realized that they need to see me as leader before I can be all gooey friendly at this testing stage

I don't think the testing ever truly ends. It's like they will be very good for awhile and then it can be months or even years later and they just may test their boundaries again to see what they can get away with. Silly dogs don't they realize we never change our minds on the rules


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