Starting to train Kona

[chuckorlando]

Not much to report for her. But I've learned a few things for sure. I got a book from Peggy Swager called Training the hard to train dog. Starting with the alpha dog myth. She also breaks down dogs into groups. 1) control freaks, 2)stuborn 3)nervous

Kona is deff a control freak and duke is deff nervous. It seems I do some things naturaly but then others I am so far off it aint funny. First huge mistake I have made with all my dogs is not controling their food. We have always had a big feeder and they eat as they want. Never had a problem with over eating or what not. But I have noticed tht mastiffs can get bloat. So we started hand feeding today. I had to sit there so Kona let duke eat, but she stayed back. She wanted his food but she did'nt go after it. But I think thats her control. She is willing to let him eat from the bowl she dont want I guess. So any advice there is welcome.

So I'm more training me. Tone, movement, all that good stuff. I got some scooby snacks to help train using positive aross the board. My hardiest thing with kona is how we play. So when she does wrong, she thinks I'm playing sometimes. But I see raising your voice dot work that well. In fact she understands NO real well. But I noticed if I say it a bit louder, she plays more. Where if I stay even toned she stops.

I hope to use this thread us an up date as we go. So any advice on what to start with, how to go about it is great.

 

[chuckorlando]

Well I just gave them both their food. Kona did real well. She not only did not go after Dukes bowl, but even after she was done she did not bother duke. She started at the bowl when I set it down. I said no in a normal tone and she stood back up. She waited till I picked up the bowl again and set it back down. Could be luck, but at least we know the potential is def on the surface. A calm no also deff work better than a louder tone.

 

[dsaw247]

Sounds like you're on the right track. And progress, even small steps, is good. It feels good when training goes correctly and your pays off, doesn't it? Good luck as you continue to work on training with Kona!

 

[chuckorlando]

None of my dogs have ever been trained so to speak. They all understand no and are good around people. And they just dont get put in situations that requires lots of training. But you folks on here kinda opened up my eyes on alot of things. So I have an learning curve or two. But we'll get it under control.

Kona does real well with Duke's food. He eats much slower. She wants to eat he's but she just stands there looking. She certainly acts like she's starving. hahahaha. But she's on 6 cups a day right now. The bag recomends 4-5 cups for 75lb and she was 85lb a month ago

Thanks for the support and kind words

 

[chuckorlando]

Well weve had a few good days with the food I figure. She waits till I say good girl before going after her food so thats good. Now that she aint just diving in, I'm gonna try to get her to sit before I put the bowl down. I've been going inside last few days and watching from behind the curtain on the glass door. Just to see if she would go after Dukes food when I was'nt looking. She leaves him be untill he's done and walks off. If theres any scraps left she gobbles them up but usualy she just carries an empty bowl out into the yard.

 

[chuckorlando]

Well we started on the sit comand today. I used a trick from the book I mentioned. It said to bring the treat over the dogs head. It also said to not push down or any thing like that. Which I have done in the past.

Well the first time it took her a minute. Shoe would look up as far as she could, then take a step back. After about 3 steps she sat. I say "Good girl" and give her a treat.

The next time she did'nt step back but she did look up. But then sat. Same with the 3rd.

After that I just say "sit" and she does. Each time she gets a good girl and a treat.

Very smart dog. Learns very fast. But she is hard headed so the real trick will be getting it to stick all the time

 

[ruby55]

Once you're pretty sure she has the sit command, don't treat EVERY time. It's like going to the casino, or playing lottery. You win every once in awhile & it keeps you coming back. Always mark with the "good girl" though. Now that you're using "good girl" after she does it, you should probably always use it, with whatever you're teaching her. It's like clicker training, only you use a phrase instead. I just use "yes" in a short sharp way. Then it's "good sit" or "good down" or "good stay". and sometimes a treat.
I've gotten lazy lately with training, & Sunny gets even lazier if I don't bring him back to it once in awhile. Their favorite treat is the monkey biscuits we feed the lemurs. They only get them once in awhile. So we've been refreshing on down without a hand command. I love watching Sunny work it out in his head; I can almost hear the wheels turning. He keeps watching me, slowly sinking down..."Is THIS what you want?" Now when I hold up a treat of any kind, he lays down automatically. :slapme:So we're back to putting him through his paces. Ruby, on the other hand just wants the darn treat. NOW. "I'll do whatever you want; JUST GIVE ME THE TREAT!":dance2:

 

[chuckorlando]

I also use a hand motion as well. Basicly just flop my wrist down as I say sit. I tried it out a it ago with just the hand motion and no treat. I had to pause for a minute then repeat then pause and repeat but she sat. She also dont move an inch towards her food bowl anymore. Least for now. She dont even lean towards it. Just stands there and waits for me to touch the bowl and say good girl. I always mark with good girl.

 

[chuckorlando]

Well she knows sit well. She also has it down she cant eat from her bowl till I say good girl.

So today we started down. Did'nt take her no time to pick it up. Sometimes you have to say it a few times, but she's got it pretty good for her first day.

I tried to work on stay as well. She was doing good till I got about 4ft away. Then Duke thought it best to follow the treat and there went that. So stay we will do alone.

She also knows sit with just the hand. I had to do i 3 times but she sat. Of coarse that could be her doing what she thinks I want, but if tha gets her there faster, thats cool

 

[dsaw247]

I think it's great that you're working so hard with her. Just remember to always try to end on a good note. When I was teaching Moose stay it was a slow process. After a few successful rounds, we would take a break. She'll get it as long as you stick with it. To help reinforce stay we play hide-and-seek and find the treat. For the first, Moose sits in a room and gets a firm "stay". I go hide and say "come". I only say "come" once. As soon as he finds me he gets a treat. I start off close by and gradually increase my distance. Find the treat is the same. He sits and receives the "stay" command. I hide the treat and then say "find the treat". They're fun games that help us reinforce and practice stay. We also make him sit and stay when we give him treats, bones and toys. Usually after I say "stay", I will put the toy on the floor a few feet in front of him. He has to wait for me to say "okay" or "get the ...". It helps with stay, keeps Moose from messing with things that aren't his, and all our friends love to watch him do this

Again, sounds like you guys are making great progress!

 

[Kelly]

How is the training going? Sounds like you're managing multiple dogs alone? I have 2 and find it really hard to train them one at a time.

 

[chuckorlando]

Actualy really well. She's still to hard headed and when distracted, you have to make her look at you, then she'll sit. On a leash she has been doing excelent. Her socializing is going very well. The other day we walked up to 3 friends across the street. She just sat at my side like she should. She could have reached any of them with a full leash. Though I hold it short. But she really just did'nt care. Then Fred(Guy she wanted to bite over the bag) walked up behind us. She turned and growled. I redirected her attention to me, and after a few moments, she sat back at my side. But the best part was later that night. Me and Fred was in the garage with the door shut. My wife let Kona out by mistake. She did'nt see him for a fe minutes. I was down petting her when she did. She was ready I can say that. Did'nt even bark. Just a growl and go. Of coarse the whole reason was down petting her was to make sure she was able to be contained. I again redirected her attention. Got her to sit. Then gave her some good girl love. She was cool after that. Of coarse I took her in the house after a few minutes. But let her see it was ok and she let me see she gets it. Vey aloaf dog but so far pretty cool. I think we are gonna try and do some leash training indoors. Try and teach her some bondries. She likes to stand sideways where you want to go. She also leans on you sometimes when you walk. On the leash she does real well now. She dont pull and more or less stays with me. If she gets side tracked it dont take more that 2 COME ON to get her moving. Least most times. She does sometimes get scared when we start running. My steel toed boots bang pretty hard running and sometimes scares her. She's getting better. My biggest problem, she dont like my little dog. Or likes him to much. Something. Always trying to mess with him. But slim stays in the shop almost all the time. Duke aint really being trained. Truth is our life style dont require much ore than good manners. Duke more or less just has them. Kona is just a Fila and requires alot more work. And being that you have to start with basics to get the proper end result, thats where I'm at. Learning as I go

 

[chuckorlando]

We started with the stay comand today. We've tried before but it's been a bit. With our high strung dane going wild for treats, she did very well. Poor danes sitting, laying, jumping, running in circles, just give me a "scooby snack". I started with just standing, Then a few step back, then a few more. Then walking to the side. Though she did scoot sideways to keep watchng me, she stayed pretty good. I even got in the hallway almost to the garage door. I'm in the garage most all the time I'm home so she knows what that door is. I mean she did'nt just stay. I aint that lucky. But only once did she come all the way up. The rest a little AH and she stayed put. Which surprised me with the Dane acting a fool. We also work on jump. She was sketchy at first but after watching the Dane, she was on it.

Now if she would only listen when distracted. When she's watching Fred or someone, you could be speaking russian and get the same result. I think she's doing well. But in reality, I dont think she will be able to be social with others much. Even Fred, who she'll walk up to as close as I let her, has to watch his back. If he turns, and I was'nt carefull, she would attack or at least nip him.

 

[lizzy.bu]

Sounds like you are doing awesome. How old is kona?

 

[chuckorlando]

she's bout 1.5 now. he's doing well. Most my threads with pics aint in the fila section cause not many folks venture down here. Myself, I scan the right side of the new post just for fila threads

 

[tojvan]

Chuck I use alpha approach as a means to curve behavior so I'm interested in this alpha myth your talking about. Another thing, using the treat is good way to start training, but solely depending on them is a mistake if there is a positive, there has to be a negative. For example supposedly your dog is off leash and wants to go after a squirrel you tell him to leave it, if the dogs is expecting a treat as a reward for listening, 9 out of 10 times it wont work if it is a dog with very strong prey drive like a fila or a shepherd there has to be a negative for not listening. The most efficient way is to combine the two.

 

[Cody]

that is awesome Chuck! Sounds like is going great. Keep the updates coming

 

[angelbears]

Actualy really well. She's still to hard headed and when distracted, you have to make her look at you, then she'll sit. On a leash she has been doing excelent. Her socializing is going very well. The other day we walked up to 3 friends across the street. She just sat at my side like she should. She could have reached any of them with a full leash. Though I hold it short. But she really just did'nt care. Then Fred(Guy she wanted to bite over the bag) walked up behind us. She turned and growled. I redirected her attention to me, and after a few moments, she sat back at my side. But the best part was later that night. Me and Fred was in the garage with the door shut. My wife let Kona out by mistake. She did'nt see him for a fe minutes. I was down petting her when she did. She was ready I can say that. Did'nt even bark. Just a growl and go. Of coarse the whole reason was down petting her was to make sure she was able to be contained. I again redirected her attention. Got her to sit. Then gave her some good girl love. She was cool after that. Of coarse I took her in the house after a few minutes. But let her see it was ok and she let me see she gets it. Vey aloaf dog but so far pretty cool. I think we are gonna try and do some leash training indoors. Try and teach her some bondries. She likes to stand sideways where you want to go. She also leans on you sometimes when you walk. On the leash she does real well now. She dont pull and more or less stays with me. If she gets side tracked it dont take more that 2 COME ON to get her moving. Least most times. She does sometimes get scared when we start running. My steel toed boots bang pretty hard running and sometimes scares her. She's getting better. My biggest problem, she dont like my little dog. Or likes him to much. Something. Always trying to mess with him. But slim stays in the shop almost all the time. Duke aint really being trained. Truth is our life style dont require much ore than good manners. Duke more or less just has them. Kona is just a Fila and requires alot more work. And being that you have to start with basics to get the proper end result, thats where I'm at. Learning as I go

Chuck, can you still walk up to a group of people with Kona?

 

[chuckorlando]

Well that came from a book. I dont believe in alpha rolls in the ways of a wolf pack. But I do believe that the human needs to play alpha dog, top dog, parent, comander and chief, or what ever one wants to term it. Even amongst the dogs we have alpha and beta. Again not lie wolfs, but plenty plain as hell. I also only used treats for the first day, maybe 3 days on what ever I'm teaching. Once she knows sit means sit, she dont get treats for sitting no more. She does get a "good girl". She is food driven so you want her full on attention, grab a snack and she will learn all you got to teach. But again, once she knows stay means stay, theres no reason to give treats. Just like my son. When first teaching to use the toilet you might offer a candy for not wetting your pants. Now once he learns not to wet them, now you offer an ass whoopin if he wets them verse candy if he dont. ahahaha I dont live in a lilly white world so I agree with you, have to have a little of both.

Chuck I use alpha approach as a means to curve behavior so I'm interested in this alpha myth your talking about. Another thing, using the treat is good way to start training, but solely depending on them is a mistake if there is a positive, there has to be a negative. For example supposedly your dog is off leash and wants to go after a squirrel you tell him to leave it, if the dogs is expecting a treat as a reward for listening, 9 out of 10 times it wont work if it is a dog with very strong prey drive like a fila or a shepherd there has to be a negative for not listening. The most efficient way is to combine the two.

 

[chuckorlando]

Thanks. I think I am gonna build my version of a flirt poll now. I want to bring out her prey drive more. It's there and strong, just needs a little work.

that is awesome Chuck! Sounds like is going great. Keep the updates coming