too focused?

[Ben Curtis]

Leo, my 5 month old CC, snapped at my daughter last night while chewing a bone, and I have some questions about it.

In my opinion if Leo is very into a bone he has 100% focus on it. It is almost like he forgets where he is, who he is, and how he is supposed to behave. It is like his wild instincts are driving him. If anyone approaches him with out warning he will react. Usually a quick growl or as in last night a growl with a lashing out. The growl or nip never lasts more than a second or two, just long enough until his focus is broken.

If I just say his name before approaching him, or getting too close, he will not react at all. I can take what ever it is with out issue. Not only myself but anyone. It is just in those moments when he seems too focused.

My questions:
- Have others seen this type of behavior?
- Should I be doing more than having everyone know to let Leo know your coming before approaching.?

This behavior is completely manageable in my household, but I am more worried about when friends and family are around and not aware of his behavior.

Oh, and and FYI, Leo only ended up bumping his nose against my daughter. Here nose was sore, but not bleeding or anything. She was more scared than anything.

 

[davidfitness83]

It's called resource guarding and it's going to get a lot worse before it gets any better if you do not act quick. You are dealing with a very dominant breed, a behavior like this should not be tolerated. Where did you get the dog from?

 

[Geisthexe]

Davidfitness is correct on what it is called and that the dog is dominant.
My question is have you worked the dog with food meaning
you have your hand in the dogs bowl?
pull the bowl while the dog is eating?
make the dog sit before food?
what type of training have you started on the dog?
if you did training who did you train with?

need a little more information before some help can be provided

 

[Ben Curtis]

Is it resource guarding if he will let anyone at all take the bone or whatever away with out even batting an eye? It only happens when he is extremely focused. I can play with his face, touch the bone, flick his ears, even push him away with my face and take it. He shows absolutely no aggression if his focus is broken. It only happens when he is surprised, but when he is hyper focused, he can be more easily surprised.

 

[Mooshi's Mummy]

IMO you want get that nipped now! If that happend in my house there would be hell to pay. Any form of toy/food/treat guarding is UNACCEPTABLE and will not be tolerated, not ever, no excuses, I dont care about how focused my dog was you do NOT, ever, ever, ever snap at me or anyone else for that matter. Not ever. BTW - I am not yelling at you, just telling you how it rolls in my house.

 

[Ben Curtis]

Deb, yes to everything. No issues with food, or anything. He sits before getting his food. He has completed and excelled in puppy obedience, and will be starting basic obedience next month. I would say he is a star pupil when it comes to obedience. For instance in one night I trained him to crawl to me 5 feet away with no prior practice. Overall he has no issues, except this once in a while thing.

the first time it happened he had puppy ice cream. He was 100% focused on it and my daughter approached him, and he growled. I then approched him and he did the same, and I then took the ice cream away and he let me with no issue. I then pretended to eat it, and then gave it back to him. I continued to take and give back. I then had my daughters do the same, and since that day he has not had an issue with ice cream again.

Last night he had a new bone from the butcher. He was intently gnawing on it. My daughter did not realize and approached him from a position where he did not see her coming. After that I did the same process as I had done with the ice cream and had no further issues.

---------- Post added at 11:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 AM ----------

Mooshi, I agree, and there was hell to pay, and he knew he was in big trouble. He ran to his crate, and did not make eye contact with me for about 2 hours. Is my approach wrong so far, or should I be doing something different.

 

[Ben Curtis]

Mooshi, I agree, and there was hell to pay, and he knew he was in big trouble. He ran to his crate, and did not make eye contact with me for about 2 hours. Is my approach wrong so far, or should I be doing something different.

 

[Geisthexe]

Is it resource guarding if he will let anyone at all take the bone or whatever away with out even batting an eye? It only happens when he is extremely focused. I can play with his face, touch the bone, flick his ears, even push him away with my face and take it. He shows absolutely no aggression if his focus is broken. It only happens when he is surprised, but when he is hyper focused, he can be more easily surprised.

The problem lies in your daughter not being seen as a higher left pack order. So many dogs do not see child as above them they see them as just another critter in the pack, so since the dog is more dominate then the child the dog see them as submissive.
The reason I asked you questions you didnt answer is b/c I want to what you have done with the dog.

 

[Robtouw]

Part of my training with my pups has always been taking things out of their mouths. I began doing it as soon as they came home, as early in life as possible. Toys, treats, anything, anytime I want and I encouraged my husband to do so as well. We usually take the item, hold it a while then give it back. The goal is to make sure I can safely take things from him in hazardous situations and keep him from snapping when others are near if he has something he chews or plays with. I would recommend practicing with your pup as well.

 

[Ben Curtis]

He for sure is not submissive to my daughter like he is with my wife and myself, but I expect that. She does well in training him with obedience skills he has already mastered with us, but not as sharp.

Leo will not enter a door until all of us have gone through it. He sits before getting anything. He is never on our furniture, always eats after us.
He has mastered, sit, down, stay, leave it, take it, go out, find it (knows the name of his rope and frisbee for recall), climb, easy (for walking on icey surfaces) touch, place, and go to bed.
Come he has down very well, but he has not been in a position to fail yet.
He walks behind me when on a leash and is very good unless a loud car comes by and scares him.

Sit pretty did not work so well, he fell over backwards... not so good at balance.

I am sure there are more but I can't think of.

He meeting other dogs, but for the most part I would describe him as "aloof" in those situations.

 

[Geisthexe]

In the dogs obedience do you have your daughter do it... FOCUS, Sit, Down, Stay etc? Do you allow her to do the correcting & praising?

 

[Ben Curtis]

Part of my training with my pups has always been taking things out of their mouths. I began doing it as soon as they came home, as early in life as possible. Toys, treats, anything, anytime I want and I encouraged my husband to do so as well. We usually take the item, hold it a while then give it back. The goal is to make sure I can safely take things from him in hazardous situations and keep him from snapping when others are near if he has something he chews or plays with. I would recommend practicing with your pup as well.

I have done this also, and your description is exactly how I would describe how I have handled it. He has not problem at all with any of what you described. It is only when he super focused on something, and it only happens when he is not expecting anyone to approach him. And once he expects you, he will not react at all.

---------- Post added at 11:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 AM ----------

In the dogs obedience do you have your daughter do it... FOCUS, Sit, Down, Stay etc? Do you allow her to do the correcting & praising?

She came once, but as the instructor said, a kids timing is not as precise as it needs to be. Yes she does all the commands, but only after Leo has them mastered with me. Leo and her I would say are very intoned .

 

[Ben Curtis]

In the dogs obedience do you have your daughter do it... FOCUS, Sit, Down, Stay etc? Do you allow her to do the correcting & praising?

She came once, but as the instructor said, a kids timing is not as precise as it needs to be. Yes she does all the commands, but only after Leo has them mastered with me. Leo and her I would say are very intuned .

 

[Mooshi's Mummy]

If it were me I would involve your daughter more at the training classes, so she is doing the training rather than at home doing the treat giving. Playing at getting him to sit and getting a treat by your daughter is different to her actually training him. Thats just my opinion but its what I would be doing, depending of course the age and concentration level of your daughter.

 

[davidfitness83]

Where did you get the dog and what age>?

 

[Ben Curtis]

If it were me I would involve your daughter more at the training classes, so she is doing the training rather than at home doing the treat giving. Playing at getting him to sit and getting a treat by your daughter is different to her actually training him. Thats just my opinion but its what I would be doing, depending of course the age and concentration level of your daughter.

I would agree, but the instructor does not want her there (she is 9). I agree with both points of view. In class we are taught new things. It is the first time we are showing the dog something. According to the instructor, timing is everything at this point. Getting it precise and doing it consistently the same is important. She is just not able to process what to do, and get all the hand movements, and timing all together in such short a time frame. I can hardly do it.

At home is where we practice the commands, and yes I probably should involve her more, but I think some of this is missing the point.

If I approach Leo in his hyper focused state he will growl at me too. Only for a second until his brain caught up with what he was doing, and then he would avert his eyes, and wait permission to take the object again. He would do the same thing with my daughter.

---------- Post added at 12:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 PM ----------

Where did you get the dog and what age>?

Maine, 5 months

 

[Ben Curtis]

Where did you get the dog and what age>?

Maine, 5 months

Met both parents, amazing dogs.
Saw both parents health records, no issues.
Breeder wanted a puppy from her dog, and was selling the other pups to good homes, not to make money.
(no offense to anyone out there, but in my opinion the perfect breeder)

 

[Geisthexe]

See I find that weird that your trainer is not also training the kids. I train kids all the time. Yes they learn new things and yes that is where parent does the work but I want to make sure the child is understands so there is no issues
But guess each training doesn't think the same

 

[Rugers-Kris]

Everyone is focusing on the daughter but he has said that it isn't just her and it isn't happening as a rule. I agree the daughter should be involved but he seems to be doing that right as well AND he is getting training AND He seems to be doing a fantastic job all of the way around, IMO. Is it really resource guarding when he NEVER guards resouces? It sounds like he does it because he is startled when he is so incredibly focused but obviously this isn't a pup that has real resource guarding issues...Again, IMO. Let her rip!!! I am ready. LOL

 

[Geisthexe]

Why aren't you asking your trainer what to do in this situation? He/she is there to know the problem.

What do you do when the dog growls at you?