What is she trying to tell me???

[vadersmom]

Good morning all,
So lil Brodie continue to do much better overall. We started another round of classes('impulse control") and the trainer is very good. We actually ended up with private lessons as no one else signed up.
She has given us a couple things to work on this week and that is going pretty well. She, the trainer, was stumped by the lunging at me that happens still. Brodie actually did it at class so she saw the mild version. The scenario goes like this.....we are walking most of the time, and for what ever reason-usually some knd of overstimulation-she starts looking then biting at my shoes. This progresses to biting the leash which she cant do because it is metal. Then she starts jumping at my body-kinda like a body slam. Frequently this then turns into her biting my jacket. Pure attention seeking-nothing vicious. This can go on for aabout 5-7 min then she stops. During this time, I turn my back to her and say nothing. I then tell her to sit, down etc. We start walking again, and occas she starts back up, but she also can calm down and go ahead.
I see a pattern with this-overstimulation- like a temper tantrum. She has done it in our yard with no one else around and at the park with folks giving their opinions how to stop it which usually involves a knee to the chest.

I am convinced she is trying to tell me something and is yelling at me. The trainer suggested, before she gets geared up, to throw down some treats so she has to forage as a calming thing. Of course yesterday when it happened, I didn't bring enough treats. Dang!

I know I have brought this up before and it does seem to be less frequent. We always do NILIF and overall she is much better and I am proud of her this month. Less lunging after squirrels etc. Still with occas issues with the "witching hour" 5-8 but that seems to be normal for kids.

Any ideas?

 

[PrinceLorde13]

Sounds exactly like when my 6month old wants to play with my year old and she's not in the mood. He will start to grab at her feet, chest, neck, then face, if that doesn't work he starts throwing paws at her, still doesn't get her to play he will start throwing us body into her or hip checking her. I can tell you how she stops this behavior, don't know it will help you but maybe, she lifts her big paw finally and just hold him down till he stop, or she'll try and sit on his head lol. But ya sounds like he's trying to initiate play whether you are interested or not, treats don't calm my little guy just get him going more, I put him in a sit and if he's still being hyper I'll hold him against my leg, if he still wants to go I'll rub his chest shoulder area as I push him over onto his side and kind of massage him while keeping him on his side, this seems to help calm the wild beast within. I also give the command relax or enough depending on the situation now he begins to respond to the commands and knows calming down is what's going to happen next, no choice

 

[season]

Leadership issue. Or lack there of. Our dogs give us so many opportunities to correct behavior but we ignore the little moments and wait until the dog is acting bratty and out of control. Then they wonder what's wrong with the dog. It's not the dog it's you.....plain and simple. Your dog should be calm before you even step foot out of the door for your walk. If he's pulling on the leash then you aren't leading, your dog is. Going to a "training class" isn't going to fix a lack of leadership. Only you can do that. You should be the trainer. It's free, too. I just get a kick out of so many people that can't control their dogs...big or small...and they pay people to fix them....when in reality it's not the dogs problem...it's the human that needs fixing.

 

[vadersmom]

You know,Season, you don't know my history and your assuming that it is all my issue is condescending. I don't know your history either, except most of the posts that I had read from you have not been helpful....mostly accusatory about lack of leadership. Instead of pointing fingers, giving specific feedback with knowledgable tips would be most helpful.
Glad you "get a kick" out of folks trying to do the right thing. I am asking for solutions and suggestions to be the best leader for my puppy. If you have specific suggestions, I am all ears.

 

[Smokeycat]

Jiggers used to get like that as a puppy. He would become overstimulated and get really pushy trying to play. What I found the best was to start a training session. I started with the simple commands like sit and down and as he calmed down worked on more complicated tricks like rollover and crawl. He loves showing off what he knows and it didn't matter that he had to work for it he got the attention that he wanted. He did mostly grow out of it and when it occurs now he calms faster than he used to.
I tried many other things to curb the behavior including the knee to the chest, which he thought was a great game and I personally wouldn't want my dogs to learn that things on the ground should be eaten. I know that they will still eat things but I work to prevent it as there have been people around here who drop poisoned meat.

 

[season]

You know,Season, you don't know my history and your assuming that it is all my issue is condescending. I don't know your history either, except most of the posts that I had read from you have not been helpful....mostly accusatory about lack of leadership. Instead of pointing fingers, giving specific feedback with knowledgable tips would be most helpful.
Glad you "get a kick" out of folks trying to do the right thing. I am asking for solutions and suggestions to be the best leader for my puppy. If you have specific suggestions, I am all ears.

You getting defensive by my comments tells me all I need to hear. Good luck.

 

[Lilliput]

I think redirection is a great tip, specifically starting a training session like smokey said. When Xena gets like that we will immediately start an engagement exercise, a simple one that she has mastered like "sit" and "come" until she's totally engaged.

And I agree that Season's "advice" sucks. It's not a leadership issue. There's a place for the Leerburg method but it's not in dealing with a hyper puppy moment.

 

[vadersmom]

Thanks all! I appreciate constructive advise. I do start a training session but maybe I do not get it to last long enough! When it happens again, I will "train" for a longer period of time, and maybe the chest rubbing and learning a "relax" command would be very helpful... I appreciate your time!

 

[marti1357]

Good morning all,
So lil Brodie continue to do much better overall. We started another round of classes('impulse control") and the trainer is very good. We actually ended up with private lessons as no one else signed up.
She has given us a couple things to work on this week and that is going pretty well. She, the trainer, was stumped by the lunging at me that happens still. Brodie actually did it at class so she saw the mild version. The scenario goes like this.....we are walking most of the time, and for what ever reason-usually some knd of overstimulation-she starts looking then biting at my shoes. This progresses to biting the leash which she cant do because it is metal. Then she starts jumping at my body-kinda like a body slam. Frequently this then turns into her biting my jacket. Pure attention seeking-nothing vicious. This can go on for aabout 5-7 min then she stops. During this time, I turn my back to her and say nothing. I then tell her to sit, down etc. We start walking again, and occas she starts back up, but she also can calm down and go ahead.
I see a pattern with this-overstimulation- like a temper tantrum. She has done it in our yard with no one else around and at the park with folks giving their opinions how to stop it which usually involves a knee to the chest.

I am convinced she is trying to tell me something and is yelling at me. The trainer suggested, before she gets geared up, to throw down some treats so she has to forage as a calming thing. Of course yesterday when it happened, I didn't bring enough treats. Dang!

I know I have brought this up before and it does seem to be less frequent. We always do NILIF and overall she is much better and I am proud of her this month. Less lunging after squirrels etc. Still with occas issues with the "witching hour" 5-8 but that seems to be normal for kids.

Any ideas?

Sorry, I must have missed that, but what breed and how old Brodie is?

 

[vadersmom]

My mistake!!! She is 15 months old and a bullmastiff. Doing better overall as she grows up but this little area is stiil needing some growth.
Thanks!

 

[musicdeb]

You know,Season, you don't know my history and your assuming that it is all my issue is condescending. I don't know your history either, except most of the posts that I had read from you have not been helpful....mostly accusatory about lack of leadership. Instead of pointing fingers, giving specific feedback with knowledgable tips would be most helpful.
Glad you "get a kick" out of folks trying to do the right thing. I am asking for solutions and suggestions to be the best leader for my puppy. If you have specific suggestions, I am all ears.

Right on, vadersmom! Season has a history of laying it on the line and has little tact. I agree with you, Season gets a kick out of ruffling feathers on the forum.

 

[DennasMom]

I think it could totally be a tantrum-type reaction... she's being so good during the lesson, and holding it in to stay in control and do what you want her to, but that can only go on so long before a burst of energy needs to be "let out"....

I think the key is to guide that "letting out" of energy in a productive direction.

Denna will do this (still)... as we finish our walks, she'll start grabbing the leash - jumping up to play with it (I know the neighbors must think she's terribly unruly, but I just let her play... she never actually pulls me with it).... I actually started using these moments to teach her agility words... so if she grabs the leash, I'll pull her in a left-hand circle and say "left"... then after a few forward steps, I'll pull again to the right and spin her in a right-hand circle saying "right"... she actually DOES know her left from her right now... as we walk up to a T in a path, I can tell her "right" and off to the right we go!

I think part of "leadership" is also knowing when to let loose and have some FUN!
So... it could be your pup just needs an outlet more often for some outbursts. Especially since these turned into private lessons - that's a lot of concentrating. Maybe doing some Sit/Wait/Come exercises would help let out that burst - by that I mean, put Brodie in a sit/wait, and then go to the other end of the classroom where you can call for the "COME!" and let her really burst over to you for some praise and a treat!

The other thing about jumping ON you.... you could teach Brodie a 'target' command, and then teach her to jump straight UP (no paws allowed on human) toward your target (I use the palm of my hand as the 'target'). This way the dog gets to jump - which releases LOTS of energy - but does it in a way that you can control... at least a little bit.... and keeps her OFF of you at the same time.

If you google "kikopup target command" a good youtube video should show up to show you what I mean.

Hopefully that helps! I find classes of any kind are always helpful, because you're out doing something together, which is always a good thing, in my book.

 

[Bailey's Mom]

You getting defensive by my comments tells me all I need to hear. Good luck.

Actually, I've noticed the negativity without any positive input, so.... Instead of kicking the human or the dog, plot some helpful, happy ways for growth. We all crave/need positive reinforcement with our training. Be a Force For Good.

 

[remi]

Having a younger but occasionally stubborn bullmastiff puppy I can sympathize with the frustration. This is my first time living with a BM and after decades of shelties and goldens it is quite an experience. I've been teaching obedience for years but living with a breed is WAY different. I do play but have learned Remi must have a clear delineation of play, quiet, work and strict obedience times. It doesn't always work how I plan. Thank god my dear friend and co-owner is a mastiff person, is a canine behaviorist and can help me. It would be an utter disaster otherwise I fear.

 

[vadersmom]

Oh, the "target" idea is a good one! She does know a little about "touch" so that will help as well. Love these great ideas, guys. Gives me very specific things to do. I would also love a "calm" word, or relax phrase....that would be easy enough to figure out on my own.
Great group here-much appreciated.

 

[Rugers-Kris]

I am so glad to hear that she is getting better. I have told you before that Ruger got like this as well and that is when I started with the flirt pole...It was definitely over stimulation, excessive energy and just pushiness. Luckily with him, it would come at a certain time at night so doing the flirt pole right before that time stopped the behavior and now that he is "all grown up" it is no longer and issue. He did have an issue after his weekly bath. He loves the towel drying part of the bath and gets seriously over stimulated and as soon as I let him go, he would start barking and lunging at me (Playful, nothing aggressive) and I had to grab him or he just wouldn't stop. I used the word "enough" and after a few times, he realized that it wasn't working for him. He still loves the towel dryng but he ha learned to bounce around without lunging and trying to force me to play.

I am not a "grab" the dog kind of person and I didn't hurt him, just had a hold of him but it was truly the only way to get his attention at this particular moment to make him listen to the "enough" command because he was so damn wound up. I wish I could put into words how much excitement came with the towel drying. LOL It only took a few times.

 

[vadersmom]

I would have liked to see the towel episodes! I suspect they are fun to watch from afar but not be part of
We have put a pinch collar on with a tab leash for those days that you just KNOW something will jump off. Giving that a tiny pull will typically reign in the excitement. Of course, the days it happens are the days she isn't wearing it. Put it on last night and no issues.
We tried the flirt pole in the past and that really sent her over the edge so we had to go to throwing sticks/balls etc.
How old was Ruger when he finally grew out of it?

 

[Rugers-Kris]

LOL. When he was a tiny boy, he would hump the air when he was being towel dried and I curbed that but it turned into this crazy over stimulation that made him act like a lunatic as soon as I let him go. Like I said, I just grabbed him because he was scratching the shit out of me and slamming into me and he was already giant so that method only took a time of two but to this day.....After his bath and he is dried, I open the bathroom door and he shoots out like a missle and flies around the house with some serious zoomies and he will be 3 next month.

I am not exactly sure on ages but I would say he was about 7 months when he would get the crazy, attack me and try to forrce me to play stuff so I got the flirt pole and those stopped after the first time that we played with and he was wore out but I ha to play every night until he was 18 months or so when he appeared to kinda "chill" and we still do something every evening whether it is the flirt pole or balll but if we don't.....He is ok, too. The attack of the recently dried dog was last seen when he was about 15 months or so.

I started it withh Magnum when he was about 6 or 7 months because he would get those same excessive energy moments and even though he didn't direct them to me, he would run around and intentionally get into stuff or steal something and run just to be a jerk.

 

[vadersmom]

I am going to see that in my minds eye all night...too damn funny! Yeah, I have had to curtail Brodies "enthusiasm" manually as well! I try not to do that but at times-we have to protect ourselves! These are big babies and not for the faint of heart!