What the hell am I doing wrong!! So frustrated right now!!

[vadersmom]

I know I have posted before about my troubles with my BM puppy. She is now 10.5 months old and we generally do pretty well. Most days are manageable with me at work and hubby taking care of her. He cannot walk her but he can do some easy training. I walk her daily, we go to the park, we just came back from the lake. We started beginners agility and we are starting scent work as you all suggested.
She goes nuts....very excitable then lunges at me, biting the leash-changed to a chain and it helped. Now she just jumps at me! I ignore her and turn away from her and she stops. She gets in a zone and nothing will stop her! She gets a hold of something(like another dogs coller) and locks down on it. We stopped going to the dog park because of this.
What causes this? Seems to be when she is tired or over excited. At times out of the blue.
I try treats, redirecting with toys, and at times I am physically firm.
We put her in the crate for a 10 min time out.
Too much activity??? Not enough??? Several more months of this????? Don't know if I can it.
A prong collar will be the next purchase. And a whistle to break "the zone".
I suck.....

 

[Tosa]

You said you started training agility. What do you use there as a reward - food or some kind of toy? When we were visiting obedience classes with Tosa, we always had to carry her favourite toy or treat. If it is a toy, she would have that toy only when we practiced for training (she had other toys to play with at home if she wanted to, but this one was special). So even when we started having some behavioural issues with her, i knew i can carry something with myself that she loved so much. I think the first step to solving your problem is making her respond to your voice when she does something you don't want her to.

 

[alejandro]

I'm not understanding(don't think you explain it on your post) when or why your pup get on the zone, but mine use to get over excitable when she relize we where going out, tried to bite my hands and the leash and jump all over the place. What i do it's to make her sit untill she calms down and won't put her leash on if she ties anything that i don't like. She still gets a bit crazy some times but the change have been big and notorious. And when she does it rigth she gets treats of course.

 

[vadersmom]

Thanks all,
That is what I am trying to figure out is why she gets in the "deaf" zone. It is in times of excitement like branch pulling in the yard yesterday-she LOVES sticks so cutting back branches is great fun.And the jumping at me-just more fun??? I try to throw toys so she will let me do it to no avail. I treat with food and always keep a pocket of treats to reward good behavior which is often. I have had her on benedryl for scratching for about 10 days with a second dose of antibiotics for hot spots. Could this have anything to do with her "deafness"?
We did buy a dog whistle to get her out of the zone on walks and we also have a prong collar on during the walk but not attached to the leash, and some in the house so we have a way to "correct" a behavior she knows not to do and if she ignores commands I know she knows 100% but chooses not to listen to.
Keep the suggestions coming...I really do listen!

 

[musicdeb]

She's in the teenage stage, she is pushing the limits. Adopt NILF (nothing in life is free and she receives no food/treats/love until she works for it), consistency in training, LOTS of patience and do not allow her to feel your frustration because that causes her to shut down even more and not listen. If you become frustrated, walk away and decompress. Return once you have decompressed, standing tall with shoulders back to show confidence. Pups respond better to training with a confident trainer.

Keep her on leash at all times so when she starts to jump, slightly tug on the leash and tell her "no" in a firm, stern voice and make her sit. Keep her in sit until she has calmed.

Teach her "calm". I had to teach Titan "calm" so he would not get the zoomies after eating. I tell him "calm" and put my hand up in a stop sign.

Once she has calmed, reward her with a motivational reward and continue doing what you are doing. If she starts to jump, repeat.

Show her what you want her to do.

A prong collar may help but please be sure you know how to place it and use it, using the prong collar incorrectly can lead to injuries. Leerburg Dog Training | How to Fit a Prong Collar

I know that you are under a lot of stress due to your husband's injury and a dog in the teenage stage, when you become stressed with the pup, put the pup in his crate and go into your kitchen and take a couple of shots of whiskey. Breathe...

 

[vadersmom]

I am very aware that she may be mirroring my stress a bit(a lot). I have been at a "10" for months and am slowly getting lower but it sure doesn't take much to go from 9 to 10. I feel like I need to do all the training-but I have to realize I dont need to do all the training in one day! This is a many year project and one weekend does not ruin the project.
I keep the prong coller high on the neck and a quick snap of the wrist is all there is too it.
Is there such a thing as too many toys, too much structured activity. Maybe she is having too many walks, too many trips to whereever and she hasn't learned to chill?? She is hyper if I take her and really hyper if I dont.

 

[musicdeb]

IMO, training lasts the lifetime of the pup.

How do you react when it's time to go on trips? Do you make it a big deal or is it a calm scenario?

When Titan and I are ready to go someplace, I tell him it's time to go in a calm voice to keep him from getting overly excited. When I return from an outing, he knows to sit there and not jump until I greet him. He will sit and stare at me, patiently waiting until I say hello.

The pup feeds off your emotions, if you're jacked up, the pup will be jacked up. If you're calm, the pup will be calm.

Sounds like she needs the exercise, at 10 months she can exercise 50 minutes at each exercise event (5 minutes of exercise for every month of age). I remember you work and your hubby cannot walk/exercise her.

I do not believe too many toys has any effect on the pup or too much structured activity is a bad thing, in fact structured activity is the best thing for a pup IMO.

 

[whit72]

It's the zoomies, it's just magnified because your dealing with a hundered pound pup.

As others have said, don't let her get to that point. My girl still goes through this occasionally abd I just ignore her. When we are going out I just have her suit until she chills out then I put the leash on her. Jumping and biting at the leash is excitement. I usually just snap the leash when she does it. Abd then I don't move until she calms down again. I only have this happen occasionally but it can be overwhelming due to the shear size of these dogs. I have a Corso and the strength alone can be intimidating even if it's just play. Training training and training...

 

[vadersmom]

Thanks again. When we walk, it usually is OK at the beginning.She doesn't get over excited getting the leash on at all. Sits at the door ready to go. Does well overall. Then mid walk, it seems she either gets tired or something sets her off and then the leash biting, pulling and jumping at me starts-out of the blue, I think, but I know there are signs that I dont see. I stop, and turn so she cant see me- taking myself away from the action. That usually stops it.
My biggest issue is in the house or yard, she gets excited and starts jumping at me. sometimes it is when we play fetch-I stop the game when she is like that. She will grab onto items that are not hers and NOT LET GO even with treats, commands, lip under the teeth manuever etc. Goes deaf. Almost impossible to redirect. So that is why we bought the dog whistle to get her attention in those times. Does that sound feasible?
Hubby can't walk her but he can play fetch in the back yard now and can do some basic training as well.
Appreciate everyones time and help!

 

[CeeCee]

A few of thoughts... When you're dog starts to tug on the leash, make sure they are you are not making it into a game by pulling back on it. Continue to hold the leash, but let your arm go slack. Don't look at her or pay any attention to her. She'll get bored because you're no longer playing along. When she drops the leash praise the dickens out of her.

You can carry a small squirt bottle of water and when you see her start to redirect her excitement at you (lunging) or at the leash, very calmly tell her "uh uh" and give her a couple of squirts on the tuckas, the side of her body or even in the face. Again, reward and praise like crazy when she stops. The water bottle is giving her a very clear message that that is not appropriate.

Finally, she may like to tug. If that is the case, give her an opportunity to play tug, but you will need to control that and teach her a release word for when the game begins and an out for when the game is over.

Just some more possible options.

I know I have posted before about my troubles with my BM puppy. She is now 10.5 months old and we generally do pretty well. Most days are manageable with me at work and hubby taking care of her. He cannot walk her but he can do some easy training. I walk her daily, we go to the park, we just came back from the lake. We started beginners agility and we are starting scent work as you all suggested.
She goes nuts....very excitable then lunges at me, biting the leash-changed to a chain and it helped. Now she just jumps at me! I ignore her and turn away from her and she stops. She gets in a zone and nothing will stop her! She gets a hold of something(like another dogs coller) and locks down on it. We stopped going to the dog park because of this.
What causes this? Seems to be when she is tired or over excited. At times out of the blue.
I try treats, redirecting with toys, and at times I am physically firm.
We put her in the crate for a 10 min time out.
Too much activity??? Not enough??? Several more months of this????? Don't know if I can it.
A prong collar will be the next purchase. And a whistle to break "the zone".
I suck.....

 

[Siloh]

I'm wondering how often you have the opportunity to take her energy down to zero. Just completely drain her. Hamlet continued to be a crazy nuisance in spite of daily walks and training, and I think it's because I could not physically drain his energy with him on a leash, and sometimes it seemed like imposing *too* much structure was making him as crazy as not enough.

I hit a wall with this around the mark that you're at. Now it's a must-have in my life to take him somewhere off-leash for a run or some good, long playtime (tug and fetch are favorites--I trained a release word early and it has paid off more than maybe any other command). I will spend about two hours making sure he gets to a place where he doesn't even want to play anymore. He'll just lay down or try to go inside.

It's improved his behavior all day dramatically. Sometimes we have to go out multiple times in a day to keep him at near zero, but now he walks like a charm, no tantrums!

Sounds like agility will really be awesome for her.


"Nothing is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so."
Hamlet Prince of Denmark

 

[Rugers-Kris]

Personally, I don't think there is ever too much structure and schedule. Definitely the trying, teenage stage coupled with some serious energy that isn't being worked off. I know you said you have tried the flirt pole and it didn't work but you need to find the "thing" that drains her. Walks, fetch and those sorts of things are fun for mine but don't do anything for getting rid of the energy. Of course, Ruger is nearly 2 1/2 so it isn't an issue with him anymore but when he went through the stage that he wanted to get in my face and bark, jumps at me biting and barking and so on...It was a particular time of day (5-8) that he turned into the devils spawn. I stayed calm and redirected him but also realized that he needed something during that time to get rid of the energy. I used the flirt pole and "thinking" games like hide and seek and they tired him out. I have done the same with Magnum. Magnum never did the jump and bark at me thing but he would hit a certain time and be a tyrant. Running around getting into stuff, taking all of the pillows off the couch, stealing rugs, climbing all over people and it was the same for him...too much energy.

 

[vadersmom]

Yes...when we could go to the dog park and she could just run like hell...these tantrums are all but zero. She is in a phase of not releasing what is in her mouth even though she knows "drop and leave" 90% time. When she has a collar of a dog, she esp is nuts with that so therefore, no dog park. I think the swimming will help but that will be weather related. When I take her for a play date with the neighbors and she plays for about an hour, she does better. I agree-I can't drain this energy during the day. I just wish she could play well and leave the collars alone- so dangerous for all.
Another issue here in the south is the heat-she gets overheated in a min with temps in the 90's so I have to be out a little bit, several times a day. She gets overheated before she wears out energy wise.
I have tried tug of war and the flirt pole BOTH get her so ramped up that I have trouble getting her calm again. She has discovered she loves water on her face too, so squirting her would be heaven for her and it would be "game on"!
I could try the tug again and see if the stopping word is heeded. I haven't tried in several months as it was too much stimulation.
Hard to believe this is my 4th BM and I am having so many issues diverting her energy. Hoping the agility class tonight goes well. She does love it so.
Question about the tug-do what do you do if they tug on every thing-how do you instill one toy for tug and not the whole house at this age? She sure couldn't identify one tug object over another a few months ago. She fetches really real in the house-outside not so much as she just runs after it and not bring it back. She brings back the toy in the house and we have to practice leaving it so mommy can toss it again-so tough for her.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Hard to believe this is my 4th BM and I am having so many issues diverting her energy.

You've not exactly had a normal puppyhood with her either thanks to the various major stresses in your life!

As she gets into agility, could hubby (verbally) run her through some home obstacles maybe?

Can he set up a sprinkler in the yard for her to race around in and through and under maybe? It'd help keep her cooler, and if she enjoys water.....

 

[Rugers-Kris]

I understand the heat thing as we have had horrific temps here in Florida. Fetch in the house would be a good time to work on the "drop it" command. Since she is consistent with the game indoors. When she brings it back and won't let go, don't try to take it. Ask her to drop it or release or whatever word you are using and if she doesn't, turn away from her and when she comes around you to get you to play, calmly say the command and if she doesn't listen just repeat over and over and she will learn that she has to drop it in order to play. Always praise/treat very well when she does it. Once she is consistent with that...take to the next activity. As she learns it, it will be easier to teach her what she is not allowed to tug on otherwise with a "drop it" and a firm "No", She will figure it out. Ruger and Magnum both went/go apeshit when the flirt pole comes out but if I keep playing, tongues will be hanging to their feet and it is time to stop and they settle down after a drink. Magnum would keep going until he has a heart attack if I let him but once I stop because I know he has had enough...he lays down exhausted.

 

[angelbears]

When Cane was young, the more physical we got the more wound up he would get. Some one suggested a more mental game. So, we started playing Hide N Seek. Some times I would hide or other times I would hide a toy. About 5 rounds of this and he would calm down.

 

[vadersmom]

Thanks again-she, poor girl, has not had a normal babyhood with daddy in the hospital. She is quiet with him during the day and that is good as he cannot take a 70 pound missile to the gut like I can right now. So, I am lucky that she treats him easily right now. On the other hand, I get all the energy when I come home from work esp. Hubs can do a good job with fetch and drop it inside and maybe a few more commands. He cant do a lot of bending and twisting yet as he is still new on his leg but he can sit and do these easy things. He cant get in the yard too well yet so fetch or stuff in the yard is still out.
The water sprinkler is a great idea after work! I will set it up and she can chase the hell out of it!
Great ideas guys....hopefully I am not ruining her little future with being a suck parent right now. I love this little girl and we have been through so much together.

 

[vadersmom]

We used to do hide and seek...need to that again! I don't know why I stopped??

 

[Siloh]

Not too sure how to build a sense of differentiating between tug toys and non tugs; we always used a series of rope toys for Hamlet that he seemed to find inherently high-value over other toys, maybe because our chi valued them.

Not sure if tug is just too much of a trigger here in any case, but I reinforced the release as well as the fetch behavior by building value for releasing a toy. So I would start with level 1 enthusiasm and energy, and then I would ask for a release and completely go slack without releasing the ball or rope. When he released, I would give the fetch/tug command (they're the same: "Get it!") with level 3 enthusiasm, and so forth and so on, so that Hamlet associated releasing the toy with anticipating an even better game. With fetch in particular, I conditioned him to ensure that chasing the ball is FUN, but holding the ball or keeping it away from me results in being ignored. Tug was easier to do this with, I think, because I never had to let go of the toy. I would give the tug command when I picked it up, play, wind down the game a little, ask for the release, and then when I got the behavior--BAM--instantly start the game with twice as much excitement projected. I like tug because Hamlet has been the mouthiest dog I've ever met, so it gives him a lot of release to be able to bite and pull, and he can direct that energy toward the toy instead of my hands.

I still use this method to teach him new tricks. Right now we're cementing a sit-stay while I throw a toy, then a release to get it, and the same method of ramping up the excitement exponentially as a reward for following through has been working well. If he doesn't wait until I release him to get the toy, I meet him with no excitement and we do it again.

How does the scent work affect her energy? Does it seem to satisfy/drain her?

Have you thought about getting her a backpack for walks? The backpack saved my life (empty--stuffed with plastic bags to fill it out, although 10mos is probably old enough for a little weight when she gets used to it?). Coupled with a prong, it's been great.

Maybe it's too early in her development for this (I'm no expert on mastiff growth), but have you ever considered trying her paw at weight pulling?


"Nothing is neither good nor bad, but thinking makes it so."
Hamlet Prince of Denmark

 

[QY10]

I do rally with one of my dogs and I was actually surprised at how exhausted she can get after a good rally practice session. It's not the most physical sport out there, but it does require both physical and mental activity. In between multiple daily practices, we play fetch with one of those ball Chuckit things, which drains a lot of her excess energy. We have also broken up the rally practices recently by adding barn hunt to her repertoire. For the most part now, she is a pooped out pup.

I'll second the backpack suggestion. I personally put a water bottle in each pocket. The added weight provides just a little bit more exertion for them.

Heavy weight pull can be dangerous for a lot of dogs as they can easily sustain serious injuries that will prevent them from participating in future sports. Even with professional training, some dogs just don't pull safely. With that being said, low resistance weight pulling is a fantastic way to drain excess energy and condition your dog's body. Again, you want to ensure that your dog is pulling properly and safely.