Worried about my baby

[aran]

Hi guys,

As if the foodintolerance wasn't enough for poor Conan, we now have the following issue:

We found out he started to have some problems which looked like joint problems at first: waddling while walking, trouble getting up, slipping while running in the kitchen, unstable and VERY flexible ankles.

We took him to the vet and after discussing with a specialist they agreed it might be some sort of undernourishment: because of the foodintolerance (which we only discovered when he was 8 months old) he lost a lot of nutritions the first few essential motnhs during his growth, due to diarrhoea.

Now, this results in instability, muscle weakness and him being a tiny bit underweight.

This made me wonder: what is the normal weight/height ratio for this kind of dogs? Anyone has experiences with the same problem?

Conan is a Mastin Espanol, approx 77 cm high, weighing 44,5 kg. (30" / 98 pounds). He's 11 months old atm. What should be his ideal weight at this age and height?

 

[musicdeb]

I'm sorry to hear about Conan's health issues. I would recommend starting him on glucosamine to help with bones/joints. Titan and I take the same glucosamine.

Can you post a pic of Conan while he is standing from the rear, side and front?

Be more concerned with body condition than body weight. Where does he fall on the chart?

 

[musicdeb]

Using Glucosamine to Prevent Canine Osteoarthritis - Whole Dog Journal Article

 

[aran]

Thanks for the reply. I'd say he looks more like a 5 judging from the pictures. But judging from the descriptions I'd say more of a 3 or 4. But just a little bit.

He has thick fur so maybe that changes the view. His rearlegs and thighs look thin compared to the rest of his body. It's a big breed so I don't know what's ideal. If i look up the Mastin Espanol, there are chubby ones as well as athletic ones so for me it's hard to tell.

I'll upload photos when i get back from work.

Because he's still growing, the doctor advised not to use glucosamine or other supplements just yet. They suspect he'll get healthy with enough food, gain weight and exercise.

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[musicdeb]

Read the article I posted with great info re: glucosamine which should be started as a puppy.

I look forward to seeing the pics.

 

[aran]

Read the article I posted with great info re: glucosamine which should be started as a puppy.

I look forward to seeing the pics.

Ah, didn't see it was a link to an article on my phone. Will read! Thanks

 

[aran]

There ya go. I must say, seeing the photos now I can see some area's better, where there should be more muscle tissue I guess.

 

[musicdeb]

He looks like a "3" to me from the body condition chart. Due to his muscle loss, I would definitely keep him on the lean side. I would start the glucosamine to help with his bones and joints.

Mastiffs continue to grown until 2-3 years of age, therefore, he may grow a lot more by age 3 years.

Slow and steady growth = healthy mastiff.

What are you feeding him? Do you add toppers to his food?

 

[aran]

Thank you for your quick reply.

We've tried various types of food but it gave him severe diarrhoea. When we found out he has a food intolerance we switched to Royal Canin Anallergenic to start with. After 3 weeks, switched to some "lower" food. Since a month or 1,5 he gets Royal Canin Sensitivity Control and he has no more diarrhoea.

We fed him 750gr. (1.5 pounds). Since yesterday, he's getting 1kg (2.2 pounds) because he has to catch up on nutritions and weight. The vet said he should start eating more now.

I'm just worried his legs won't carry him anymore at a certain point. When he's peeing, he almost sits on the ground and he walks like he drank a lot. This all happened in a very quick time: okay, he always waddled a bit but not this excessive. He slipped in the kitchen twice last week (hitting his hip against the plaster wall one time). Maybe this added up to it and worsened the symptoms? (We informed the vet about this).

 

[musicdeb]

He may have wobblers syndrome. Wobbler Syndrome | College of Veterinary Medicine

 

[aran]

Yikes, let's hope not!

I've checked some videos and his walking pattern doesn't look like the ones of the dogs on the vids though.

I'll keep a close eye on his progress. If he doesn't show progress after a reasonable time, I'll contact the vet again and make some X-rays.

 

[musicdeb]

I hope it isn't wobblers too. Please keep us posted on his progress. I would recommend that if he continues to fall that a vet check and/or 2nd opinion is in order.

 

[aran]

I can't stop thinking about it. The muscleweakness due to malnourishment sounds plausible, even more because you can feel the lack of thighmuscles in his rear legs.

Analyzing it, I can say the waddling and weakness suddenly worsened this week, after he fell while trying to climb on the chair ( he screeched when he fell) and after he slipped/fell chasing the cat and hit the plaster wall with is behind.

Could it be this caused him pain, which he now tries to compensate with a adapted walkingpattern, but because of the muscleweakness his legs can't keep up with this compensating walkingpattern..

Ugh it's driving me nuts

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[musicdeb]

I would say he is in pain due to the fall. Has the vet recommended a pain reliever, i.e. tramadol, baby aspirin or buffered aspirin.

If the vet every recommends a NSAIDS, i.e. Rimadyl, Dermaxx or any carprofen drug; please do you research. The drugs have serious side effects and cause death with no warning.

IMO, the pup needs a 2nd opinion.

 

[aran]

Hmm yes they prescribed Rimifin 100mg. According to the webs it's a carpofen painkiller, for muscle and jointpain. Sounds like a strong one to me.

I get the idea that American vets have very different opinions than Dutch vets.. About the pills, glucosamine etc.

My older dog gets glucosamine twice a day. He has seniorproblems and is doing great on the glucosamine. They recommend it for older dogs but not for growing puppies

I'll keep you updated.

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[musicdeb]

That is probably very true that U.S. vets think differently than Dutch vets.

Yes, please keep me updated.

 

[Hector]

Did you get this dog from a breeder? Spanish mastiffs are very large dogs up to 200lbs+. I would think a dog that's suppose to be that big would be 150lbs at 11 months. It's just a guess.

He does look weak in the rear legs. Falling, slipping is very detrimental. Do your best to not allow him to slip or fall. Buy some carpet or foam mats and lay it down in your house where he usually slips. Don't allow him to climb on furniture and minimize stairs.

There are exercises you can do to build leg muscles like hind end awareness work (look on youtube). Your best bet would probably to take him to a rehab vet center or a canine fitness center.

Have you tried feeding him raw meat? What kind of food allergies does he have?

Are you feeding him by the cups? so 2.2 lbs of kibble is what...7 cups?

 

[aran]

Actually: we got him from a shelter re-homing strays. All we know is: he grew up in Spain with his 3 siblings, don't know if he was born in the Spanish shelter and grew up there, or if they "caught" them on the streets and homed him at that shelter. When he was 2,5months old he travelled to the dutch shelter. We got him from there when he was 3,5 months old.

That's all we know about his past. When we got him, he had severe, stinky diarrhoea. We thought it might be parasites like Giardia or other wormtypes. He got meds and we gave him new food.

But the diarrhoea got back again. Step by step switched to another sort of food, went well for 3 weeks, then diarrhoea again. Around october (so around 4 or 5 months later) we went back to the vet again. She ran some tests to exclude parasites. That's when we found out it's foodintolerance.

As far as I know, he can't stand the regular proteins of meat processed in regular dogfood. Like pork, beef, salmon, lamb and chicken.
He now has Sensitiviy Control (Royal Canin). I found out the main ingredient is duckmeat, so I guess he can properly digest that since he's eating the Sensitivity Control for 3 months now without trouble.

We feed him around 750-800g a day (1kg was a bit too much). Thats 1,5 "measurement cup", the ones you get when you buy the dog food.

Goal is to gain muscle and not too much fat. Okay, he has to put on weight, but musclemass is more important or else his legs can't support the bodyweight.

I'd probably should cover the whole kitchenfloor (biiiig kitchen) with mats than lol.

But I must say: we gave him a hot thermal pack which I got from my own physical therapist. I put it on his back and I can just see him relaxing. He also got up a bit better after it. I really think he just hurt his back, worsening the complaints of the lack of musclemass.

Any tips for exercises to strengthen his hind parts? Mostly thighs. For now, I'll let him rest a bit. Hoping he'll be walking better in a few days when his back-pain lessens. After that, I'm hoping to exercise with him to gain more hindleg muscle.

 

[Hector]

Actually: we got him from a shelter re-homing strays. All we know is: he grew up in Spain with his 3 siblings, don't know if he was born in the Spanish shelter and grew up there, or if they "caught" them on the streets and homed him at that shelter. When he was 2,5months old he travelled to the dutch shelter. We got him from there when he was 3,5 months old.

That's all we know about his past. When we got him, he had severe, stinky diarrhoea. We thought it might be parasites like Giardia or other wormtypes. He got meds and we gave him new food.

But the diarrhoea got back again. Step by step switched to another sort of food, went well for 3 weeks, then diarrhoea again. Around october (so around 4 or 5 months later) we went back to the vet again. She ran some tests to exclude parasites. That's when we found out it's foodintolerance.

As far as I know, he can't stand the regular proteins of meat processed in regular dogfood. Like pork, beef, salmon, lamb and chicken.
He now has Sensitiviy Control (Royal Canin). I found out the main ingredient is duckmeat, so I guess he can properly digest that since he's eating the Sensitivity Control for 3 months now without trouble.

We feed him around 750-800g a day (1kg was a bit too much). Thats 1,5 "measurement cup", the ones you get when you buy the dog food.

Goal is to gain muscle and not too much fat. Okay, he has to put on weight, but musclemass is more important or else his legs can't support the bodyweight.

I'd probably should cover the whole kitchenfloor (biiiig kitchen) with mats than lol.

But I must say: we gave him a hot thermal pack which I got from my own physical therapist. I put it on his back and I can just see him relaxing. He also got up a bit better after it. I really think he just hurt his back, worsening the complaints of the lack of musclemass.

Any tips for exercises to strengthen his hind parts? Mostly thighs. For now, I'll let him rest a bit. Hoping he'll be walking better in a few days when his back-pain lessens. After that, I'm hoping to exercise with him to gain more hindleg muscle.

Wow, poor boy.

If he hurt his back, I would restrict his activity for months. My boy hurt his back from slipping on wood floors and doing stairs all the time. He went completely lame one day, but we are better now. We were on lots of pain meds, restricted activity (no walks for up to a week) and then short walks afterwards. After that scary episode, I bought gym mats and laid it down in my living/dining room lol. No more slips.

Do you have facebook? If you do, I suggest joining a group called Canine Conditioning and Body Awareness Exercises. Otherwise, your best bet is still a rehabilitation center for canines. They have trained specialists that can work with your dog and also have all the right equipment.

I will look up some exercises for the hind end. In the meantime, keep everything pretty calm and quiet.

 

[Hector]

Here's a good video on different exercises you can do. I heard that LGDs are not easy to train because they are not easily motivated. It can be done, but many people say it can't.

[video=youtube;5O7mS4blCF8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O7mS4blCF8[/video]