Zoe got a prong collar

[danielleconn]

It has significantly improved her pulling & the excitement has decreased some. We went into petsmart where she was able to approach other people & dogs as she didn't drag me to them. However, she shakes her head constantly, is this normal? She does it most when it's fitted just behind the ear. As she shakes it moves a bit lower and it drives me nuts. We still work on our turns, attention on me & "lets go". She is sniffing a lot less which is nice, we walk more than we stop now, but she still has plenty of "go sniff" time. She is still a bit hard headed, at times she stops so she can go sniff the grass but now she gives herself a correction and continues on her way. If given the whole leash though she will still go to the end of it, I just don't understand. When the leash is shorter and she is in the correct position she gets a good marker and a treat but she will still go to the end if given the whole leash. Am I missing something on teaching her this whole loose leash concept?

 

[DennasMom]

Have you faked her out with turn-arounds when she's out front at the end of the leash?
It won't take her long to figure out she needs to keep you in her sights if she's going to keep up with you as you turn.

I use a "with me" cue to keep Denna next to me... I remind her if she starts to pull ahead, and she'll settle back down with me again.
Denna does better if I pick up the pace. We can trot/jog together for quite a while, but if (when) I slow down, she moves out ahead again.

I'd say just keep going. Lots of practice and repetitions. Keep up with the treats, but maybe make them more random?
If she's like Denna, some things are just more important than treats... so you have to find something that will compete with the other attention-grabbers when you're out walking.

Hopefully some others will chime in with some better advice.

 

[irina]

Head shaking is normal. Ajax has worn the prong since 4 months old and he still tries to shake it down whenever he gets a chance now at 1 and a half. I would stop abruptly or turn periodically to teach her to pay attention to you. As far as walking close, we have 3 separate commands: let's go, go pee and walk. There is also heel, but that is only for competitions and training and it has a separate set of requirements for Ajax. Let's go is just he can walk anywhere and do anything, sniff or not as long as the leash is loose. I do not stop or slow down, just keep walking. It is his job to make sure the leash stays loose or else. As soon as there is any tension on the leash he gets a correction. Go pee is do his business and have a good sniff command. I would stop periodically and wait for him to mark or just investigate the smells. If he is done sniffing and wants to continue walking, he will turn around and look at me. If he is taking too long, I would just say let's go and start moving. He has to follow or he gets corrected. Walk is walk close to me, pretty much in the heel position, just without looking up at me. He has to maintain a forward motion and look ahead, no rubber necking. We use it when we pass other people or dogs because he has the potential to get excited. If he tries to pull or as much as turns his head sideways, he gets corrected.
This is just what we do. You might find it helpful or not.

 

[danielleconn]

Thanks all! Yes we do lots of turns & abrupt stops but she has cues for that, she knows turn & wait and sometimes if I notice she isn't paying attention I do it without the cue. Glad to know the head shaking is normal, she does it until it slides down! Rascal! I just didn't want to over correct if she didn't understand what I was communicating, but I feel like by now she should know. Treats are random, I give quite a few markers before she gets the treat. But as she gets the treat she is proud of herself & trots out to the end of the line, it's so weird to me. She only gets treats in the correct position & then off she goes right after.

I will just keep at it & know I am not over correcting. I had a hard time committing to the prong but the last zoomie on leash really got under my skin. So we bought a prong. At 20 months I thought her excitement levels would decrease but she still loves to greet dogs & people, at least with the prong she doesn't drag me to them. So maybe she quality of life is increasing with it as my frustration levels have improved & she is able to say hello now.

 

[irina]

I might be a mean mummy, but Ajax is not allowed to say hello to anyone. We just walk on by, be it a person or a dog. We would LOVE to meet everything that moves as well, especially dogs, and even whines sometimes when we walk past them, but he gets too excited for my liking and I just do not allow it. He is 1 and a half now. Some day he might have matured and calmed down enough to still be able to pay attention to me while saying hello. Not yet.

 

[danielleconn]

It's not mean at all...Zoe has been having to ignore everyone until this point, because she was too excited and would pull. She is still excited but controllable. I feel like it's a catch 22...do we ignore people & dogs and can't have that training moment & wait until maturity & calmness? Or do we utilize the opportunity to train to greet appropriately, yet make some mistakes, but try again? I don't know...sometimes I am back and forth. With the prong she isn't perfect in her greetings but she is manageable. We don't have a big back yard, so our exercise is walking & socializing at parks, pets stores, hiking trails, etc. She also has a luxating knee cap when she twists & turns randomly, so her free running has been minimized. I want her to learn & enjoy herself, but I agree in not saying hello when excited. Again, I am torn.

 

[gilles]

use the prong when you walk her, and if she wonders away a little jerk and then reward if she corrects ...keep it for a while until she walks next to you properly on a loose leash. but let her snif in the grass from time to time if she wants to pee or poop,. when she is perfect with the prong, use a regular collar but keep the prong on....if she starts giving you a hard time with the regular collar , move the leash to the prong...this takes time and patience and big dogs can get you tired easily.
but use a good quality prong that does not hurt ..it just makes her uncomfortable when needed....volka does not even feel the prong anymore

 

[danielleconn]

this takes time and patience and big dogs can get you tired easily.

You certainly speak the truth!!
Yes we will keep at it...we bought a herm springer, I even put it on my thigh and gave it a few yanks, it doesn't hurt but you feel it.

 

[season]

Dogs will do what you allow them to do and what works for them. I'd say keep working on the structured walk. The whole "sniff time" is unnecessary. They can sniff all they want while they are walking next to you. Just because a dog is walking right by your side at all times doesn't mean they suddenly lose their sense of smell. You aren't robbing your dog of anything. In fact you are giving your dog a great gift. The gift of a great walk next to their leader. What's better than that?

 

[Glasgowdogtrainer]

Let you're dog sniff, it's how they enjoy the world.

 

[season]

Let you're dog sniff, it's how they enjoy the world.

Ha...and they can't sniff while walking?

 

[musicdeb]

Let you're dog sniff, it's how they enjoy the world.

+1

 

[danielleconn]

She will continue to sniff & explore...although she is on a prong collar, she continues to get rewarded by sniffing when she walks on a loose lead & pays attention to me. We utilize what she enjoys, sniffing, food and getting love from people, to make training a rewarding experience. I have to balance using the prong for now with how we were training previously...it's more rewarding for me & her when she behaves she is entitled to greet, explore & have fun! After all, she is a dog, not a robot.

 

[musicdeb]

After all, she is a dog, not a robot.

Right on!

 

[gilles]

sure you have to sometime let her sniff around sometimes she needs to sniff the grass, pee etc..you have to have a good connection with her , to read her mind, so you can decide when you let her sniff around and when its time for a serious walk,,,, you will get there i am sure...but in the mean time its normal that she can get you pretty tired at times, and sometimes frustrated when she is stubborn ....just be patient

 

[Glasgowdogtrainer]

Dogs "see" the world through their noses. Why would you get a dog and not allow them the opportunity to enjoy the world? Yes, of course they can sniff while walking, but if you really wanted to look at something interesting would a glance be enough? I think not.

 

[danielleconn]

Dogs "see" the world through their noses. Why would you get a dog and not allow them the opportunity to enjoy the world? Yes, of course they can sniff while walking, but if you really wanted to look at something interesting would a glance be enough? I think not.

Thank you for your input...I watch your videos all the time & find you to be an invaluable resource. I had a hard time committing to a prong collar as I understand the importance of desensitization & counter conditioning. However, I felt like I was not making improvements & we were confined to our little neighborhood as everything was over her threshold. However, now we can go hiking & she can greet more people & dogs successfully & calmer, it has eased both of our frustration. But I really tried hard & wanted to achieve this without the prong collar.

 

[season]

The reward is in the walk. That's why it's called a structured walk. It's not a coincidence why so many people have such a hard time walking their dogs. It's because they aren't leading. They are letting their dog dictate. There are plenty of opportunities to let your dogs sniff, pee, poop, explore etc, but not on the structured walk. Never once has Solo tried to pull me to the side so he can sniff or pee. He's not missing out on anything. When you are letting your dog control/dictate the walk what they are missing out on is leadership.

 

[irina]

The reward is in the walk. That's why it's called a structured walk. It's not a coincidence why so many people have such a hard time walking their dogs. It's because they aren't leading. They are letting their dog dictate. There are plenty of opportunities to let your dogs sniff, pee, poop, explore etc, but not on the structured walk. Never once has Solo tried to pull me to the side so he can sniff or pee. He's not missing out on anything. When you are letting your dog control/dictate the walk what they are missing out on is leadership.

So when would you say and under what circumstances would the dog sniff, explore, pee, poo etc.? If it does not have a large property to roam around, then would you suggest dog parks for sniffing and exploring?

 

[musicdeb]

Dogs "see" the world through their noses. Why would you get a dog and not allow them the opportunity to enjoy the world? Yes, of course they can sniff while walking, but if you really wanted to look at something interesting would a glance be enough? I think not.

+1