I am scared of my own dog! - need help/advice/opinions

[DAC]

Thanks for all the advice.

I plan to follow the exact guideline I was given with training him. I plan to keep my distance (not a lot of pets/love and no kisses) and not to let my guard down.

I have been told numerous times that neutering won't help. I don't have the $600 right now. And Dogos are sensitive to anesthesia so that makes me nervous too.

I know he may not be getting enough exercise, mentally and physically. I'm not sure what else to do. We try to do the following each day -

Hour walk at the park once a day, weather permitting.
We play with him in the yard but he gets bored of fetch quickly and would rather eat grass or chew sticks.
We run him on our treadmill until he gets tired. usually once a day, sometimes 2 or 3 if the weather is bad.


I do want to try a prong but I am nervous about something arising that makes him freak out. Are prongs bad for dogs that already have aggression issues?


Thanks @fila4me but I am not on facebook.

 

[joshuagough]

Quoted

Thanks so much @joshuagough - you seem just as informative/experienced as my trainer. - No problem, I've had the chance to work with some tough cases and dogs a lot of folks gave up on.

It is very very hard to stand up to him, especially after I have been bitten by him. I am always so regretful for "backing down" after it happens. - That's totally understandable, and a perfectly normal reaction. What's done is done, let that regret turn to persistence and know nothing you've done can't be undone.

I can't tell you how many "how'd you get him/her to do that" I've answered. The answer is always the same.. I had the desire to see them succeed and a unwillingness to give up on their success no matter how long it took. Getting your mindset there is your largest hurdle.

So we go back to basics - god willing it works. He then sees us as the leaders - I am assuming we should always follow these guidelines (for his lifetime), the NILIF, sit command in and out the house, etc. - Yes it will work, and yes it's a lifetime change.

I don't know where he sleeps or stays during the day but I'd recommend you crate him when you start his o.b. work back (a solid few weeks of focus will change a lot). The goal here is you control free time, during these 2-3 week periods the dog is either on a leash with me or crated, there's no free time. I also use this process when a dog is going thru any hard headed stage. After that period you can go back to a normal routine. Repeat as you see necessary.

Should I try a prong for walking him or stay with the choke chain? Do you think it is okay for his "heel" to be slightly ahead? He is persistent on his stomach lined with our leg. - I wouldn't put a prong collar on this dog, you could add drive with it.. that's not something we need in your case.

I'd have a choke chain and a dominant dog collar on him (nylon slip lead) both should be snug high on the neck just behind the ears : Leerburg | Dominant Dog Collar . The reason for this is if you get in a situation where he goes to bite, I use the slip lead to raise his neck up, this will do two things 1. put you in a leverage stand point not to be bitten, 2. It will cut his air supply off and he will quit, the very second he quits you relax the lead (be ready to repeat). The goal is not to hurt the dog nor jerk his neck out of place.. it's a smooth motion up that will typically slightly lift their front legs off the ground.

I will typically give the dog a command to down/lay after I see the dog is not trying to lash out any longer. This gives them the chance to calm down, you can put your foot on the leash to ensure they remain in the position and to collect your thoughts on what happened and next steps.

As for the heel I'd want his head to be inline with your foot. Work on walking in one direction, immediately stop and start walking straight back. If he follows without getting to the end of the leash, he's at least following your lead.

That said, pick (1) command and work on it for a week solid. Asking him to do everything perfect in a short period of time is not fair to him, nor a realistic expectation (this is depending on where he is o.b wise). I don't know that your doing this but if you are... as I see a lot of situational questions, which are fine but don't throw the book at him if he's having issues. That will only generate frustration from him and you.

Sorry for so many questions and thanks again.

No reason to be sorry, we've all been right where you are at some point and questions are why there's learning and the reason for a forum.

Remember three words when training #You-got-this! (both the dog and you)

I praise my dogs on wins just as strong as I am on my corrections. Huge vocal praise, treats are good but I want to mark good behavior with my voice. I use the work "yes" as a marker, then just amp the dog up with high vocal tones of praise.

 

[joshuagough]

Sounds like your doing pretty good on the exercise, keep it up.

A prong collar is not right for your situation, it can add drive to a aggressive dog.. which you don't need. Sometimes it works fine for pulling situations and doesn't add drive with aggressive dogs, but in either case you have a need for a choker (as I laid out in my post below).. you don't want to be doing that with a prong collar on the dog.. you will hurt him.

Where are you located? I ask because of the cost of the neuter you mentioned.

Thanks for all the advice.

I plan to follow the exact guideline I was given with training him. I plan to keep my distance (not a lot of pets/love and no kisses) and not to let my guard down.

I have been told numerous times that neutering won't help. I don't have the $600 right now. And Dogos are sensitive to anesthesia so that makes me nervous too.

I know he may not be getting enough exercise, mentally and physically. I'm not sure what else to do. We try to do the following each day -

Hour walk at the park once a day, weather permitting.
We play with him in the yard but he gets bored of fetch quickly and would rather eat grass or chew sticks.
We run him on our treadmill until he gets tired. usually once a day, sometimes 2 or 3 if the weather is bad.


I do want to try a prong but I am nervous about something arising that makes him freak out. Are prongs bad for dogs that already have aggression issues?


Thanks @fila4me but I am not on facebook.

 

[DAC]

We live in SE Pennsylvania. This was the approximate quote from 3 different veterinary hospitals. Around $500 for the neuter and I think the pre-anesthesia blood work is around $100.

I will stay away from the prong. There are rarely crazy moments at the park. We are good with catching it before it gets out of control.

You really are spot on with what the trainer told us. No free roam, one command 100%, then we move to the next.

He is usually leashed to us, we crate him occasionally but sometimes he will sit in there and just chew his feet (when his allergies bother him).

They also said his head should be inline with our leg so he is more following us than equal with us. He is just so insistent on being that one step ahead. He even has some advanced heel - 70% of the time he will auto-sit when we stop. He will "down, stay" in mid walk. We can do u-turns, he follows with no pull. He is always looking back slightly to make sure he doesn't go too far. If he gets too far he will slow down to about leg inline but it's just extremely frustrating that he doesn't stay where he should (head inline with leg)

He is really good with commands except when he is in play mode or in the yard on a sniffing spree. I guess this is why we thought it was ok to move forward and start "inviting" him onto the bed.

He is not good with the "off" command. He still tries to lay on the furniture (we used to let him). He will ignore the off command until we grab the leash.

I guess we need to work on commands when he is distracted, and just keep on top of him with the "off" command.

I would like to exercise him with a flirt pole, incorporate some training - down, stay, etc. He is very toy motivated. I know that playing with him has to be structured so maybe this is a good way to play and train.

I never imagined a dog could be so much work.


Thanks again!

 

[DAC]

Yes, that's true. Once a dog "knows" the command treats should stop. Did you try to randomize the rewards before you phased it out completely? Have you done any proofing to test if he really knows the commands? You also do not put a harness on a dog that has poor walking skills. Generally you can tell when a dog is going to break a command or start to pull ahead, that's when you need to give him a cue (but you have to teach these first) to either to turn, sit, stop, slow, etc. I feel there are so many techniques coupled with the right tools that will make you guys succeed in loose leash walking. The key is not to give up and keep exploring options. You have to keep him in a heel with a dog with so much "control" and strength and then only give him the release cue when you it's okay on your terms to let him mark or sniff anything. You can even do a heel for 5 steps and release him and bring him back to a heel for 10 steps and release him. Training has to have structure and consistency. On some days like when I walk both my dogs, I'd have to tell them to sit, heel, sit, heel, sit, heel every 2 steps to get them to calm down and let them know pulling doesn't get you anywhere. I found that having them sit and pausing and just being boring helps in calming them. It makes them work even harder.

He knows his commands. It's just sometimes he doesn't want to listen, like in play mode or a sniffing spaz. I can catch him about to jump on the couch and give him the "off" command and he obeys. If I don't catch it and he gets comfortable, then he ignores me until I correct him with the leash. What's funny is he used to sleep on our bed all the time (a lot more than the couch) and he will very very rarely jump on the bed. When we started inviting him up, he would beg (pace the bed, nudge our hands and auto-sit). He wouldn't just jump up.

Are you still like that when you walk them both in heel? I wonder if my dog will ever just stay there without me having to say heel more than once. I am so repetitive. He will slow down with the heel command but I would be saying it literally the entire time. So now he gets a heel command once and then a pop/no of the collar when he goes too far. I might say heel every 5-10 minutes.

I do try to bore him with very repetitive downs, sits, stays. It works to slow him down but not for long.

 

[joshuagough]

Glad to see more vets are doing the blood panels prior to neutering/anesthesia. I don't recommend for people to neuter dogs for behavior or training issues, as the body in both a human and canine is a pretty complex thing. I have issues removing whole parts from a dog where it's not medically necessary. It could knock the edge off his attitude but not worth the risk for my dog, so that's why I don't recommend it to others.

There's nothing you can't accomplish with your choker that you would be able to with a prong, and from a pulling stand point your dog sounds to be pretty decent.

If your dead set on his body position being spot on in heeling (and from what your describing I wouldn't worry with it too much at this point) direction change him to death.. head one way, turn.. stop back up.. over and over and over. If you spend 15 mins on this twice a day for a week or two you could probably break him of trying to lead. I do this lots of times with pullers, it doesn't take long.

When he is in sniff mode or play mode have him on a long line & work your recall over and over. Recall him, if he doesn't come.. use "no" vocally.. "come again".. give him a chance to come.. if he doesn't then correct him via the long line. High pitched "here boy" (whatever your recall word is) use your long line to encourage him to you. Heavy praise when he's to you and you can give him a pat, then tell him "ok" let him go back to playing / sniffing... repeat 1,000 or so times

If he get's on something you have told him not to, use your vocal command.. then just as you have, if he doesn't get down use the leash for correction. If he get's back up there the level of correction with the leash should increase by 3 or 4 times the amount of leash pressure correction. I will be repetitive in what it is I'm training, but my corrections will always be stronger if there's a continued insistence of disobedience.

I'd make training a part of every second you can with him.

Can you take some video's of him? I'd like to see you walk him thru his commands?

We live in SE Pennsylvania. This was the approximate quote from 3 different veterinary hospitals. Around $500 for the neuter and I think the pre-anesthesia blood work is around $100.

I will stay away from the prong. There are rarely crazy moments at the park. We are good with catching it before it gets out of control.

You really are spot on with what the trainer told us. No free roam, one command 100%, then we move to the next.

He is usually leashed to us, we crate him occasionally but sometimes he will sit in there and just chew his feet (when his allergies bother him).

They also said his head should be inline with our leg so he is more following us than equal with us. He is just so insistent on being that one step ahead. He even has some advanced heel - 70% of the time he will auto-sit when we stop. He will "down, stay" in mid walk. We can do u-turns, he follows with no pull. He is always looking back slightly to make sure he doesn't go too far. If he gets too far he will slow down to about leg inline but it's just extremely frustrating that he doesn't stay where he should (head inline with leg)

He is really good with commands except when he is in play mode or in the yard on a sniffing spree. I guess this is why we thought it was ok to move forward and start "inviting" him onto the bed.

He is not good with the "off" command. He still tries to lay on the furniture (we used to let him). He will ignore the off command until we grab the leash.

I guess we need to work on commands when he is distracted, and just keep on top of him with the "off" command.

I would like to exercise him with a flirt pole, incorporate some training - down, stay, etc. He is very toy motivated. I know that playing with him has to be structured so maybe this is a good way to play and train.

I never imagined a dog could be so much work.


Thanks again!

 

[DennasMom]

Lots of great advice in this thread!

The only think I can think to add is this:

Dogs live in the moment.

The moment you change is the moment they change.
They don't hold what happened yesterday against you, and don't think you'll hold what they did against them, either.

When you decide with your whole being that YOU are in control... he will give it to you. Oh, he may test you a few times, but once he's convinced of your decision, he'll relax into his #2 position.

We had good luck with a prong collar with one dog in our past (not Denna, she hates it)... if you do think you need more tools in your training arsenal, I would have your trainer try it first, to see how he reacts. Some dogs do take it as more of a challenge than a motivational tool.

 

[Hector]

Are you still like that when you walk them both in heel? I wonder if my dog will ever just stay there without me having to say heel more than once. I am so repetitive. He will slow down with the heel command but I would be saying it literally the entire time. So now he gets a heel command once and then a pop/no of the collar when he goes too far. I might say heel every 5-10 minutes.

I do try to bore him with very repetitive downs, sits, stays. It works to slow him down but not for long.

If I walk both of them, yes. The shepherd is a spaz and he has poor walking skills and the mastiff is good at it. I only do this in the initial start of the walk. Once the shepherd calms down, then I just say "OK", a release word for whatever they are doing. My only requirement is for them not hit the end of the leash and start to pull. Otherwise I'm not very strict about constantly having them in a heel. In your case though, I would remain very strict and keep him in a heel which you are doing. He needs to understand that you are in control. You can also vary your pace just to get more variety in there.

 

[Sadies Mom]

Lots of great advice. I would add....If he is used to the treadmill, have him run on that for a while before you take him out for a walk to "take the edge of". That way he can still get out of the house to explore in a more calm manner for both of you. You are doing a great thing. Don't give up on him or your self. You can do this. There will be some trying times, but imagine what you want him to be like and set up small goals to achieve on path to your end goal. That way it is not as overwhelming. One step at a time....

 

[DAC]

Thanks so much everyone. We really do need the encouragement right now. I am sorry we failed the first time. But no point in "shouda, wouda, couda" now. We will not give up on him. We asked for him, he didn't ask for us.

@joshuagough - we do take him out with the long lead in the yard. Mainly to teach him recall and leave it when he digs holes or pulls up huge chunks of grass. I'll try to take some videos of him.
That reminds me that he doesn't always listen to leave it in the yard. He is obsessed with digging and ripping the yard up. To this day in the house he randomly grabs shoes, remotes, etc. and runs with them. Until we grab that leash, it's all a game to him. You are right that I think our corrections need to get stronger.

I can't use the choke chain in the yard because he gets the lead wrapped around the trees and bushes. I have to use the martingale which is not as good for corrections.


@Sadies Mon - excellent idea about the treadmill before walks. I'll give that one a try.

 

[irina]

We went through a similar stage with our puppy, when he knew exactly what he had to do, but only followed the commands when he felt like it. Our trainer recommended a Starmark pro training collar. It is a plastic less intense version of the prong collar. It has been working well for us. Just something else to consider.

 

[marti1357]

I don't have much to add, just wanted to wish you the best of luck with your Dogo.
(Its a breed that I love, but it needs an assertive and determined human hand).

Merry Christmas!

 

[DAC]

I don't have much to add, just wanted to wish you the best of luck with your Dogo.
(Its a breed that I love, but it needs an assertive and determined human hand).

Merry Christmas!

Thanks so much marti1357. I totally agree with you. And the Dogo is definitely not for the inexperienced. He has turned out to be way too much dog for us but we will do the best that we can. I also feel like he will never grow up. He has so much energy it drives us crazy sometimes.

Happy Holidays to you too.

 

[thelady_v2010]

I think you got tons of good advice here, I just want to commend you for not giving up. Please do not be hard on yourself.

In my opinion, I would neuter him. That won't fix all his behaviors but it may calm him down. I have a friend that is fostering a very rude and dominant Corso, once he was neutered she says the difference was night and day. I bet if you search there are some programs to help with the cost.

 

[Maks]

I agree with Dennasmom....lots of great advice in this thread! Some of the issues you describe remind me of some of my own with Maks. I wish you lots of luck and believe that when you put the advice of this thread along with the advice and help from your trainer to use, you will see a big difference in your dog. I'm still in search of a trainer that will even take a look at Maks. Running out of local options. :-/

I look forward to your updates to hear about his progress!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[joshuagough]

DAC's situation is a prime example of where boarding & training (without the owner present) is a great thing.

The trainer can work with the dog and recondition him/her, then re-intro the owner. The dog has a new foundation and for a situation with a dog as confident as her's seems to be it's a win/win.

 

[DavisJavier]

I think your dog need proper training to make him behave properly. Dog training tips will help you to understand your dog's psychology.

 

[DavisJavier]

No other animal is as loyal as Dog

 

[joshuagough]

Do you know how many pissed off cat people are going to be at your door in a few hours?

No other animal is as loyal as Dog

 

[DAC]

DAC's situation is a prime example of where boarding & training (without the owner present) is a great thing.

The trainer can work with the dog and recondition him/her, then re-intro the owner. The dog has a new foundation and for a situation with a dog as confident as her's seems to be it's a win/win.

I now wish we would/could have done that.

My trainer offered to take him down south with them for a week but it was double the cost of the in-home training. At the time I didn't really trust them enough or have the money.