I am scared of my own dog! - need help/advice/opinions

[4BIGdogs]

Are you serious??? The ONLY way that the injuries mentioned in that stupid article could happen is if the collar is used INCORRECTLY period! They mention to use a harness , REALLY?? Thats the whole reason she is in this mess in the first place, the dog has been allowed to do whatever he wants, and when they put him out of his comfort zone, he retaliates by biting, he doesnt want to do it their way and now he is winning because they are afraid to deal with him for the fear of being bitten. And i do feel that neutering him WOULD help in this situation because it would take some of that testosterone away from him, he is acting all manly and needs to be takin down a peg or two, it is not an instant fix either , it takes a few months to see a bit of a difference.

Try using it correctly on yourself for a week or two. Let us know how the doctor visit goes.
If you are really wanting to stamp your feet in then please provide creditable evidence to support no injuries if used correctly.

The reason why she is in this mess is because she did not recieve creditable advice and training, who use updated information, knowledge, science and facts. Have you ever heard of simply stop walking when being pulled....turning the other way, changing directions, giving prasie for when they get it right, what about clicker training....no, lots and lots of great training advice for free out there if you explore the updated sites.

No dog needs to be taken down a peg or two you certainly wouldn't like it so why treat your best companion like that? Neutering will not resolve anything if the behaviour is already there, you need to counter condition his behaviour and then when he is becoming more balance then you neuter. That is why we dress females in the middle of their cycle, when they are more balanced to help maintain their temperment.

I am not going to stay and argue with you, you have the right to your own opinions. I've been in the dog world long enough and gone through all the stages of dog training and I know what does not work and punishment is not the way to do it. "Teaching" with "consistentancy" with "patience" and "praise" wins above all else.

 

[CeeCee]

I commend your passion, but I have to tell you if are hoping to change people's minds and ultimately their behaviors, you're going about it all wrong. I'm experiencing your posts as condemning of those with different opinions and experiences and, yes, condescending - as if you know all and we know nothing. As for your picture, many of us have used prong collars. We've taken the time to educate ourselves on our options, weight them, and educate ourselves on the proper use of the tools we choose to use. Having done so we have never done anything close to hurting our dogs. Using scare tactics pictures of obvious cases of extreme misuse only undermine your credibility.

ANYWAY .......................After reading the updated information and what I have written on "Choke" chains....why would I use such an adverse method when there are so many other ways to accomplish the behaviour I like from my dogs?


The question is....why are you still using them?

 

[angelbears]

I commend your passion, but I have to tell you if are hoping to change people's minds and ultimately their behaviors, you're going about it all wrong. I'm experiencing your posts as condemning of those with different opinions and experiences and, yes, condescending - as if you know all and we know nothing. As for your picture, many of us have used prong collars. We've taken the time to educate ourselves on our options, weight them, and educate ourselves on the proper use of the tools we choose to use. Having done so we have never done anything close to hurting our dogs. Using scare tactics pictures of obvious cases of extreme misuse only undermine your credibility.

Well said, CeeCee!

I have yet to see any credentials presented.

 

[4BIGdogs]

I commend your passion, but I have to tell you if are hoping to change people's minds and ultimately their behaviors, you're going about it all wrong. I'm experiencing your posts as condemning of those with different opinions and experiences and, yes, condescending - as if you know all and we know nothing. As for your picture, many of us have used prong collars. We've taken the time to educate ourselves on our options, weight them, and educate ourselves on the proper use of the tools we choose to use. Having done so we have never done anything close to hurting our dogs. Using scare tactics pictures of obvious cases of extreme misuse only undermine your credibility.

You could be right, well I hope I've planted the seed for some and maybe some people will think of other options before having to use these adverse training methods first. I read my first thread and this is it....yes my passion kicked in but,...I don't know it all, I am always learning and I was hoping to learn more by like minded people who use kinder methods rather than using these tools and in my opinion, there is no need for them today. If I had known, "only" this style of training was offered and my methods were not welcomed I would not have joined. But thanks for being up front and honest.
Bye bye

P.S. Good luck DAC

 

[angelbears]

PETA'S site must be back up.

You never did present any credentials!?!

 

[mountainfila]

Try using it correctly on yourself for a week or two. Let us know how the doctor visit goes.
If you are really wanting to stamp your feet in then please provide creditable evidence to support no injuries if used correctly.

The reason why she is in this mess is because she did not recieve creditable advice and training, who use updated information, knowledge, science and facts. Have you ever heard of simply stop walking when being pulled....turning the other way, changing directions, giving prasie for when they get it right, what about clicker training....no, lots and lots of great training advice for free out there if you explore the updated sites.

No dog needs to be taken down a peg or two you certainly wouldn't like it so why treat your best companion like that? Neutering will not resolve anything if the behaviour is already there, you need to counter condition his behaviour and then when he is becoming more balance then you neuter. That is why we dress females in the middle of their cycle, when they are more balanced to help maintain their temperment.

I am not going to stay and argue with you, you have the right to your own opinions. I've been in the dog world long enough and gone through all the stages of dog training and I know what does not work and punishment is not the way to do it. "Teaching" with "consistentancy" with "patience" and "praise" wins above all else.

I know how to use one and have been using them for 30 years and not once have i ever had had a dog that had neck injuries using one. The question remains is do you know how to use one, because if you really did know how to use one CORRECTLY you would also know that the article was a bunch of crap. Yes im sure if the collar was pulled on and not released then yes you could do damage to the trachea etc.

So your saying when they neuter a stallion it makes no difference?? When a stallion becomes a gelding he becomes much easier to handle and more mellow, why is that? Same thing for bulls, so why wouldnt it be the same for a dog and im not saying its going to cure all her problems but its going to tone down his manliness attitude. And its a saying, taking them down a peg or two means means they need a wake up call, and really you fix females in the middle of their heat, who are you, do you even own a dog??? That is thee worst time to fix a female, most vets will not do it unless its a life or death situation, to many things engorged with blood and the dog could very well bleed to death, so i would like to know where you are getting your info from, cause it just not right.

 

[CeeCee]

If you stick around, I think you'll find that there are a number of tools, techniques, and methods used by the members of this forum - there is not one method. I'm trying to point out that your posts were more off putting than persuasive.

You could be right, well I hope I've planted the seed for some and maybe some people will think of other options before having to use these adverse training methods first. I read my first thread and this is it....yes my passion kicked in but,...I don't know it all, I am always learning and I was hoping to learn more by like minded people who use kinder methods rather than using these tools and in my opinion, there is no need for them today. If I had known, "only" this style of training was offered and my methods were not welcomed I would not have joined. But thanks for being up front and honest.
Bye bye

P.S. Good luck DAC

 

[joshuagough]

The correct term is "Check chains" but they are known for what they do. I too have in the past used them but that was old school thinking. Times have changed and training has come a long way. I think I would rather take the advice from science and the leaders in this field. The facts and education are out there the power of the internet and like minded trainers Yeah!

What are the dangers of using choke and prong collars? | Frequently Asked Questions | About PETA | PETA

So how do you stop a truly confident aggressive dog with positive methods?

 

[DAC]

So how do you stop a truly confident aggressive dog with positive methods?

He seems to think my dog is fearful 24/7/365.

The video you posted explains it perfectly - IMO.

 

[joshuagough]

He seems to think my dog is fearful 24/7/365.

The video you posted explains it perfectly - IMO.

just having some fun..

I pick up behind this theory/method weekly. The "positive only" dog trainer ends up getting bit badly and gives up on the dog and the owners.

At that point it causes even greater issues because the owners now think the dog is hopeless.

Many dogs are put down to poor advice from these trainers. That's the part I have an issue with.

 

[joshuagough]

due to ^

 

[hulksm4sh]

I got lost in the thread. It sort of went all over, then conflict. Probably already said, but I will say in case.

Prong is awesome. It isn't meant for yanking on for fun. I use on my Presa for teaching to stay close. I put it on, and I just walk around. If he wonders, he pinches himself and trots over. I don't yank. That said, if he is amped, you could yank all you want and he wouldn't notice. If he is mellow, the slightest movement get a reaction. Hate it, love it, up to you. Once he learned to stay close, I taught the command. Then I worked on heal with a mix of things.

He sounds like he is challenging you, and winning. You seem to sort of see it, and others commented as well. If he does a growl to get what he wants, a different growl will be hard to decipher the meaning. Especially if you don't know why he is growling.

May not be the dog for you. May have to work really hard. He sounds like a stubborn boy. Exercise and mental stimulation like everyone saying. You don't have to do a ton at once. Training, physical moving, thinking, all creates a type of stress. Stress tuckers him out.

I want to know how it goes, but get put off by the silly cryfest arguing by some. Send a message please. GOOD LUCK.

 

[DAC]

May not be the dog for you. May have to work really hard. He sounds like a stubborn boy.

He IS NOT the dog for us. We DO have to work hard daily. And he seems VERY stubborn. I can't get him to properly heel for the life of me.

Obviously this is not what we wanted but that's our fault (lack of research, not picking a proper breeder, lack of experience, etc. etc.). He drives us crazy and we can't stand him most of the time. BUT ..... we love him to death and are not the type of people to give up on any animal. Especially if it's our fault.


I will try to keep this thread updated. I appreciate all the great advice.

His recall has been getting better. In the house there is rarely a correction, outside he responds about 70% of the time. Most of the time just a verbal correction is needed unless his nose is onto something. He is still not always listening to "leave it" when he tries to rip up the grass or dig holes but it's getting better. There is a lot more training in the yard (everyday weather permitting), then I work with him and a flirt pole (which he loves), we work on sit, down, stay. But he's an Angel when toys are involved.

I do have a question to whoever wants to share their thoughts.....

There are a lot of times when I have no time to correct him. Examples

He grabs the remote from the end table. He will drop it when he sees me coming towards him. Same thing with random socks, towels, etc.
He will jump on the couch or chairs and then jump down when I come close enough to grab the leash.

How do I stop this if I can't correct him? I can't leash correct him if he already dropped the remote or jumped off the furniture. I don't praise either because I swear sometimes I think he's bad just to get verbally praised. I only praise if I catch it and he responds.

Do I just let him learn over time? It's so frustrating... he's been grabbing the remotes for 2 years!!! He knows he shouldn't do this ... a lot of the time I can catch it and he will respond to his command.

 

[Hector]

If you can't supervise him, then crate him or have him tethered to you. For jumping on couch, try and look into some scat mats or turn some vinyl carpet runners or office mats with pokey side up and see if that will discourage him from getting up there. The easiest way for him not to do these behaviors is to control the environment (put remote controls out of sight and out of reach, put him in the crate if you can't watch him, close doors so he can't access the towels/socks, put gates up so he can't get in the kitchen, etc.). Set him up so there is no opportunity to make these mistakes.

For the digging, try and make a dig spot for him. I think digging is a great workout for dogs and a dog like yours really need that.

 

[DAC]

If you can't supervise him, then crate him or have him tethered to you. For jumping on couch, try and look into some scat mats or turn some vinyl carpet runners or office mats with pokey side up and see if that will discourage him from getting up there. The easiest way for him not to do these behaviors is to control the environment (put remote controls out of sight and out of reach, put him in the crate if you can't watch him, close doors so he can't access the towels/socks, put gates up so he can't get in the kitchen, etc.). Set him up so there is no opportunity to make these mistakes.

For the digging, try and make a dig spot for him. I think digging is a great workout for dogs and a dog like yours really need that.

Gotcha.

He is usually tethered to us or something nearby or crated but those random moments (when he is done eating, or we come in from outside and I'm putting something away, or I go to the bathroom real quick, etc.).

I will make sure to keep him close by at all times. I crate him as much as
possible but a lot of the time he will chew his feet non stop when his allergies are bothering him.

I would have ginormous craters in my yard if I let him dig. And he gets all
dirty. Wish I had the money I'd like to build a sandbox of some sort.

 

[Hector]

Gotcha.

He is usually tethered to us or something nearby or crated but those random moments (when he is done eating, or we come in from outside and I'm putting something away, or I go to the bathroom real quick, etc.).

I will make sure to keep him close by at all times. I crate him as much as
possible but a lot of the time he will chew his feet non stop when his allergies are bothering him.

I would have ginormous craters in my yard if I let him dig. And he gets all
dirty. Wish I had the money I'd like to build a sandbox of some sort.

Do you have beaches nearby? I would take him there and let him dig his heart out.

 

[DAC]

Do you have beaches nearby? I would take him there and let him dig his heart out.

Nope. Jersey Shore is over an hour and a half away. Wish it was closer.

 

[CeeCee]

I agree with Hector that you're going to need to manage the environment as far as things like remotes and socks go, but you may also want to start rewarding him when he makes the right decision. I am betting there is at least a half a second when he sees the remote or he looks at the couch and is deciding whether he should or shouldn't. If you can catch that half a second, remind him, and reward him like crazy for deciding NOT to do what he was thinking about. For him it sounds like play is his reward. I know days can be crazy, but when he makes the right decision, stop what you're doing praise like crazy and play with his favorite game or toy with him. You may want to get a special toy that is his "good decision" toy. He only gets to play with it when he's made a good decision. (Yep, that means you'll need to carry it with you at all times.)

If you haven't seen that decision moment before, it usually looks something like this...

Your pup sees the item
Gives a quick side glance (I'm talking less than a quarter turn of the head or even his eyes) to wherever you are
Makes his decision.

Or instead of a quick check in, you might see his eyes light up just a little bit more.

That nanosecond is your window to remind him. I love to use verbal markers so my reminder is just "eh eh." The second he chooses not to do what he was thinking about or comes back to you or sniffs the ground or plays with an appropriate toy praise like it's your last party!

 

[joshuagough]

This is good advice, this dog should have zero free time for a long time coming. Once you get to the point you control every aspect of his environment a lot of his demeanor should start to change.

He should be following you room to room on a leash, or be in a crate.. it solves your remote issues and your digging issues with a 100% guarantee.

If you can't supervise him, then crate him or have him tethered to you.

 

[DAC]

Thx all. I guess I should've answered that myself.

He is close by 95% of the time, except for those occasional moments. If he gets away from me, I am usually good with calling him to where I am and putting him in a down command while I do whatever I am doing. I will make sure I do better with this.

@Joshua - the digging/ripping up grass is outside while I am training on the long lead. I know where he likes to dig/rip grass up so I'm usually following him around and commanding "leave it" when he goes to these spots. He does respond if I am right there (big verbal praises and pets). But sometimes when he runs back and forth, he will dart to those spots and start going crazy digging (I will not give any commands because I am positive he won't respond in his crazy mode). I can't usually correct from a distance even with the long lead because it gets tangled around his legs (I don't want to pull on it - afraid of swooping his legs and hurting him).

It is difficult to correct from a distance with the long lead since it gets wrapped around the trees and his legs. And the martingale corrections are not always effective but I can't use the choke chain with the long lead since it wraps around the trees.