Hi Amber,
I think it's great that you are helping these pups find homes. I've done rescue (GSD and Large breed) here in the states and it is something I hope you continue with. I do not own a Spanish mastiff but from reading the breed description on several sites, they seem very similar and are often compared with an Anatolian Shepherd, which is what one of my dogs is. I'll also add that we are a military family (NY National Guard 16 years) who recently move both our Anatolian and Lab to Ft. Rucker for aviation training and then back again to NY last year. Having both lived on a base and having rescued dogs off of them as well as knowing breeders, I understand the perspectives of all.
I hope that the following will help you with these pups and give you things to think about. If it comes off as a criticism or judgment, it is not. Consider it more of a glimpse into the reality of a guardian breed and the legal responsibility of owning one. I’m sure some people will think I’m a little extreme after reading below but if you have ever owned a similar dog or breed you will understand.
The breeder whom gave you a hard time about being a military family seemed from your description to be very typical of many European breeders (for many breeds) when it comes to US military families. Unfortunately, it is based in some truth. The reality is that while there are many great dog loving and responsible military families, there are many that are not. There are a higher percentage per population statistically of military families that give up their pets verses civilian. The proof is in the local shelter statistics that receive these dogs. Pull up “Craig’s list Pets†for the towns that surround these bases and you will see many military families listing their pets. Ft Drum averages 4-5 new listing each day for pets needing homes. Military families face their own unique challenges with pet ownership and the breeders know this. Sometimes relinquishing their pets is entirely without choice (assigned to a base that does not have housing for dogs or allow dogs or certain breeds are banned). Other times the more common reasons I’ve seen are spouse (wife usually) is too stressed out to handle the dog plus young kids during deployments (not going to get rid of kids); the dog was the husband’s and wife just can’t handle the young unneutered dog alone; the dog barks constantly and neighbors complain or having a large high energy dog in a 1000 sg foot ranch or apartment with no yard is just a nightmare and it’s destroying everything. It’s sad when these things happen within the breeders country and they might get the dog back, but it’s worse when it happens thousands of miles away and the breeder can’t do anything about a family dumping their dog in a kill shelter.
As previously mentioned by other posters, Livestock Guardians Dogs are a completely different ballgame then other breeds including bully-type mastiffs or other working breeds. These are breeds that need room to run in a secure yard, need a job to do, need freedom to bark without neighbors calling the town and need not only strong leaders with clear pack hierarchy but also leaders that are smarter then they are. These dogs were bred to be highly intelligent, have stable temperaments, be extremely loyal and loving to their people and defend without hesitation to the end. They were not meant to be family pets. They are to defend the livestock or farm against any threat they perceive. For a LGD this is anything beyond the mundane that they see everyday or anything that has invaded their territory (they simply see you). Therefore, this is a very noisy breed class both in the daytime and at night since they begin with a very loud, deep bark at noises. Mine doesn’t even move at night. He just raises his head and barks. I think he does this half-asleep. Luckily, my children are able to sleep through the night when this happens.
These dogs should not have a sharp temperament. If they are too quick to react/be provoked, it defeats their purpose. They should be assessing the threat and escalating as needed. A dog that goes out and attacks every threat with great gusto not only wastes his energy, but also leaves the flock exposed.
Dakota is typical of his breed in so many ways. Anatolians are always on alert. With other breeds, strangers are ‘persons of interest’; with these, you are “a threat to be assessed and monitoredâ€. They may look relaxed, but they are only waiting for a threat to arrive. It is not an if, but a when in their mind. He literally sits or lies in front of the big window looking out to the front of our house in winter or lies on our back porch constantly monitoring to alert and assess the acres behind us in summer. Only his head moves to scan. He is extremely smart and knows that people and other dogs are to be addressed but deer, squirrels, cats and chipmunks do not deserve attention and are completely ignored. We also have a double garage and just on instinct every time I let him out he circles my car to patrol behind it before going out the door to the yard and does it again when he gets back in. That is the level they operate on. This is not a breed class you train for protection like other workings breed or need to build up their confidence. It’s genetically ingrained in them. Instead, you teach them to focus their instincts and control their responses to what you feel is acceptable. If we lived on a ranch where I needed him to guard animals, acceptable aggressive behavior would be very different.
Along those lines, you need to be a clear leader and many times if your dog is especially stubborn or dominant, reinforce their position constantly. Nothing In Life Is Free (NILIF) is good for these breeds along with clear consistent boundaries. Dakota is not allowed on any furniture, he has his spot to lay down and eat, and must sit at every door to exit or enter the house. He is not released from sitting at the door even if I open it (or the kids do) till I say so. It’s so conditioned into him now, that he just sits at the door when I yell “time to go out†and waits for me. The kids can also go in and out the back doors and he will not go outside to the fenced yard till he is given the okay by my husband or myself. He literally sits there with nose 6 inches from the glass waiting and whining. It’s simply not his decision to go out and play with the kids till I say so, just like it’s not his decision to push open or charge down the front door if a threat walks by. When the dogs are with us and we go down the stairs, they are taught to wait at the top till released. This not only teaches them their place in the pack (behind the adults and my 3 and 5 year olds) but also prevents them from knocking my children down the stairs.
They also do not like changes in routine or traveling and changing homes is very stressful. Dakota did not eat for the 2.5 days it took us to drive from AL to NY both ways. When we board him, he does not usually eat for the first 2 days when he is in boarding. At night if I stay up past my usual bedtime he will bark and whine at me in the living room and then run over when I get up and put his feet on the bottom step and whine. Once we go upstairs he is fine and settles down.
He is good with his family and his children. Properly introduced grandparents are okay. If we have to travel, we either board him at a special place where the owner is familiar with the breed (only she handles him) or my good friend who is a dog trainer/pet sitter and has known/walked/visited with Dakota watches him at home. As stated by another poster, these types of dogs are aversive to other people touching them. Either they will keep their distance or if you keep trying to touch them, you will get a growl and then some raised lip if you persist and so on. If you are not in his family or accepted into his home, you should not be touching him in his mind. With strange children, Dakota will tolerate it better, but you still see he is uncomfortable.
They also have clear boundaries in their mind of accepting people into the home. We have Labrador owning friends we are close with and watched their 2-year-old son while the wife had their second child. They had been to our house dozens of times over the past year and Dakota was accepting of Charlie and sought his attention for love. He came to pick up the son after Mom had the baby. Charlie walked up the driveway and thought nothing of entering the house through the garage entrance that we keep unlocked. I was expecting him to come to the front door. Dakota, heard the door open, knew his family was accounted for and met Charlie 2 steps in before I could get off the couch and across the house to grab him. I ran in to find Charlie frozen in the laundry room with Dakota 2 feet away from his groin with tail erect folded over his back and a low growl. Very early warning behavior. He knew Charlie was not a serious threat, but he also knew that he had not been accepted in by me so he wasn’t going any further. I called Dakota back, invited Charlie in and all was fine again. That is how these dogs if raised and handled properly, should demonstrate their intelligence, devotion, fearlessness and self-control.
Another poster mentioned that her dog with a tail over his back wagging is not good. She is correct. This is aggressive or alert body language. If you watch police/military/protection trained dogs, when they are about to leave their handlers to engage, you will see their tails are wagging anywhere from a very controlled side to side to a very wild all over the place. A low relaxed wagging tail is what you want or one that accompanies whole body happiness.
Based on your current dog situation and past dog ownership, I think you need to proceed with extreme caution. Your bulldog and husky are nothing like these breeds. Those breeds were created to be friendly to people or to work with people and defer to them. The opposite of LGDs. I STRONGLY suggest you consider finding both puppies new homes. When you move and settle down in your new house permanently, look for a good trainer first that can handle and has experience with these breeds. Then find a breeder or apply to a rescue. Do not get a dog and then hope you find someone to help you train.
These are not dogs in general that do well with the same sex. If you had gone to a breeder, they would have told you they would only give you a female. Many breeders state this on their sites. It is not a worry now, but in about a year when the Mastiff asserts himself, it will be. A rescue may have considered a male after evaluating your 2 males, but probably would have suggested a female. Males and females are in different packs orders and you can have 2 M/F alpha personalities coexist successfully. Two alpha males or females (worse) are a time bomb waiting to happen and you, and/or the dogs will be injured. Trainers or breeders who have this situation rotate their dogs out for doggie play, training and people time over the day, but for families this is not fair to the dogs to be contained for long periods or to live their lives this way.
You also have 2 puppies together who are littermates. No responsible breeder would ever allow this. The reason is that these 2 puppies will become bonded and attached to each other (become “doggieâ€) more then to you. This is not a good thing in any breed, but when you have a breed that needs to be focused and bonded solely with you it’s a big problem. You also need to be socializing these puppies and controlling their environment. If 1 puppy has any temperament issues or experiences, it will affect the other. If 1 puppy is more dominant and takes care of the other, this encourages inappropriate guarding behavior for one and stymies confidence building for the other. They need to be socialized and trained separately. This is a ton of work without having 2 other dogs.
I’m assuming your Husky and Bulldog are well trained and have solid obedience since they will also effect any puppies for better or worse. I really hope your 2 dogs have been worked off leash and have solid recall to return to your side when called. If you plan to walk 3 (or really even 1) dogs that are going to outweigh you (no matter the breed), you need to have your dogs under verbal control. Thinking you can physically hold them back without solid verbal control is a disaster waiting to happen.
Entropian Puppy- You need a second opinion on this NOW by a veterinary ophthalmologist. This is not something that corrects itself or you wait out. Most puppies that have this have surgery done around 6 months. This is extremely painful for the dog and leads to corneal scarring (blindness) which is irreversible and requires lifetime eye medicine. Image having several eyelashes stuck irritating your eyes constantly. Having 1 stuck in our eye is painful enough for just that minute or 2 till it tears out.
Good luck, no matter what you decide. Sorry this got so long and wordy, I just wanted to raise some important points no one touched upon and give you an idea of what it’s like to live with a LGD that retains it’s original working drives or instincts.
Kelly
I know they certainly aren't a dog I could have in our current location as we have lots of kids and people around all the time but at some point we are planning on building back in the woods and I am looking at a horse and a pygmy goat for companionship (Scott and I are still arguing those new additions but he told me not more dogs when we had 3 rotties so we will see
