Argh. Leash manners.

[Hector]

Okay, so changing directions before she actually hits the end of the leash seems to work a lot better. Last night I took her out and decided that anytime her butt passed my leg she was too far ahead. I would turn when that happened and after about a million direction changes, I caught her looking at me a lot more.

Oh, and her harness is a front clip harness. She walks nicely in it. My plan was to use that for walks and a regular collar for training. Otherwise, our walks wouldn't be very far. When we moved her to the collar, she did fine for a while. So I guess I just assumed she understood about pulling. Maybe she realized it was easy or fun to pull on the collar.

I was worried that trying to walk and teach her not to pull wouldn't be enough exercise. Turns out I was wrong. It's actually a lot of work walking in circles, and she seemed tired even though we didn't go very far.

So, I'll keep at it. I am going to try to get her out twice a day just to work on leash manners.

Thanks for the help.

Use a leash coupler and clip it to her harness and collar that way she gets used to LLW with both on so that way she won't revert to pulling once the harness comes off. You should work on LLW every time you go on a walk. Once you think she is getting better with her walking, try the same thing with some more leash and if that doesn't go well, go back to working on what you have been. Teach a cue for the turn whether it be "turn" or "this way". My dog needs words like that to go from turning around to a heel. He's just the type of dog that needs things broken down for him.

When a dog pulls on a collar, it gets reinforced over time. They start to think pulling on a collar is okay.

Focusing on the handler is more exercise than mindless pulling.

Keep up the good work even though it will seem you are not getting any distance. After she has been doing consistently well with the LLW commands, you can even teach her a release from a heel to sniffing or pulling.

 

[MayasMom]

I switched Maya to a gentle lead collar which works great. If she pulls it turns her head back so within minutes she has learned to stop pulling and trying to get ahead of me. She is like a different dog on it. I hope that she will eventually go back to a regular collar but for now she is learning how to work

 

[season]

I walk Solo with no pulling period. Our walks are for walks. No sniffing, peeing, leading etc. I use a prong collar on our walks and he never pulls. He also gets no lead. I just use a normal leash and wrap it around my wrist/hand so he has no room to do anything except walk. Head up, straight forward. If he gets off task I give him a simple correction with a quick wrist pop and he's back on track. I know everyone has their own opinions on prong collars (I did too until I actually got out of my own way and took the time to learn about the benefits of the tool) but if used properly they are much better than any type of collar I have ever used. Period. They supply even pressure around the neck when correction is needed instead of other collars which put pressure on the front of their neck/throat which is not good.

The bottom line is that the leader leads and the dog follows....if they are not viewing you as a calm/assertive leader then they will take the lead. Practice and patience. No harness....they encourage pulling.

 

[Doggyhelpplease]

How*s it going broccolini ? I struggle with the same problem, if she sees a dog far off (There were times I hated to walk her because of it but I never stopped as I know it does more harm than good). Barrier frustration kicks in if she knows we aren*t going to stop and meet the dog though we try and stop her before it gets to the main show. We do a lot of turning etc too, or walking by at a faster pace trying to grab her attention etc. I have heard a lot of people tell me to her to turn her to me and make her sit watching me instead (we are practicing this but she sit turns her head as she is a TM…looking around is what she does)! I can walk right passed squirrels, cats, bikes, cars almost anything though there are a few things that you can tell right away she is excited about 1) dogs (she actually likes them but does not like hitting the end of the leash or being pulled from them as she will try pulling hard to them) 2) drunk people on the streets (she is concern) 3) anyone she thinks is talking to themselves (on an ear pieces but more a mental illness issues (concern, but she will drop it with a few never minds lol). She is cool with wheel chairs and canes but if someone*s movement is way out of the ordinary (has to be very extreme not just a limp (she gets concern). All of these concerns she wants to check out and when not allowed is when she pulls. The dog trigger is the only one if you pull her or lead her wrong (let it escalate too much) you get a growling sometimes barking beast. I have noticed she is a lot more bouncy with dogs because she actually isn't concerned for them but a real concern she will get stiff though this doesn't happen much (especially since it way more light now). She loves moving forward though we stop at stores etc and wait outside as she has to learn...if it was up to her we would never stop going forward...she is a true wanderer.

We are working on it like you and we use a gentle leader and the collar Mike made me. Most of the trigger occurrences are rare but the dogs, we have a ton in the neighborhood. If the dog is behind a fence barking its head off she is fine and will walks right by even if she can see them (if she is at an event with many dogs all being walked on a leash she is fine, her play dates she is fine)…it*s just walking by on a leash that she believes we should stop and meet and its worse if it head on than in a T type walk by which kind of makes sense.

We did a few lessons where a dog was set up a distance away and we worked with her till we could walk right by the dog and walk right by though it didn*t generalize yet but we are still working with it. Like a normal TM, mine won*t eat treats or take toys on the walk. Some days are great and then when I think we really got somewhere there is a day with a grand fail. I am pretty much not embarrassed anymore…I don*t care what those little dog owners look at me like which probably already helps as I am not worked up inside.

Anyways, you aren't alone here and I figure if we just keep working on it than it will eventually there will be a day it is almost perfect. Everyone, like to remind me if this is are only real problem than count our blessing....but I know she can beat this too.

 

[broccolini]

I haven't been walking Athena lately because she's going through a horrible bout of pano.

I wish I had some good practice dogs to work out her dog issues. I'm not sure it's general dog aggression, it's more like she doesn't know how to meet dogs properly. I usually try to find dogs to follow while we are walking. She doesn't go all crazy when we are just following. It's only when dogs walk toward her. I also got her a muzzle. I'm working on getting her used to it. She's highly suspicious of it. D'Argo just sticks his head in it and licks whatever I put on the basket but Athena must have looked at the pictures on the box.

And yes, the stopping and looking.
Athena is better about that now but D'Argo is just getting started. The first few times around the neighborhood, he would stop and stare at every car that went by. Now it's just people. It takes us a long time to go around the block. Thankfully, he seems to like meeting other dogs and people. I'm glad we don't have to deal with two nutty dogs.

So yeah, lots of repetition in our future. Other than the dog issues, Athena has been super easy. She's non-destructive, she likes most people and her leash pulling isn't even that bad.

D'Argo has all the bad habits she never had. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to trust him outside of his crate. But he doesn't try to kill other dogs.

Neither of them will take treats on walks. And if Athena thinks you are trying to trick her in to something, she won't take them in the house either.

Good times.

 

[season]

It sounds like some leadership/trust issues. If you don't trust your dogs how do you expect them to trust you? 99% of dog "issues" are caused by us. Not the other way around. The hardest part for us is admitting it and realizing it and changing it. It's easy to blame the dog and his/her "issues" but we should spend more time looking in the mirror and the real "issues" will be staring us in the face. If your dogs aren't following your lead then the answer is pretty simple....the solution isn't always simple, though. good luck.

 

[broccolini]

If your dogs aren't following your lead then the answer is pretty simple....

Yes. Because they've been bred for a really long time to make their own decisions.

I don't have leadership/trust issues; I have a Tibetan Mastiff.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Yes. Because they've been bred for a really long time to make their own decisions.

I don't have leadership/trust issues; I have a Tibetan Mastiff.

That pretty much sums it up

 

[season]

Yeah, if your are using a harness you are inviting the dog to pull. when I walk Solo it's for a walk. Not for sniffing, peeing, wandering etc...it's for a walk/exercise. It's our job. He has no leash room to do anything else but stay by my side and walk. He can sniff and do all that other stuff when we are at home or if I give him permission. I use a prong collar, which he does great with, so I switched to a slip lead and he does great with that too. It's all about what you allow as a leader. What energy you bring as a leader. Corrections that are made are quick and simple with a quick flick of the wrist. Again, structured walks (in my book) aren't for playtime...that is a whole different thing. Keep practicing and working at keeping your dog next to you on the walks. You lead. You control the walk. If your dog senses that you aren't in control then he will be.

 

[season]

Yes. Because they've been bred for a really long time to make their own decisions.

I don't have leadership/trust issues; I have a Tibetan Mastiff.[/QUOTE

Then we'll just disagree....They are dogs first, breeds second and you shouldn't use the breed of your dog as an excuse. No one is perfect, I know this all too well. I've made mistakes with my dogs as well....leadership is an ever evolving process but if you aren't willing to look at yourself as the problem, instead of your dog, then you won't improve and neither will you dog. 99% of dog "issues" are really "human" issues. It's not a breed thing...that is a cop out. It's like saying all CC's are aggressive or that all Poodles bark....doesn't work with me.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Yes. Because they've been bred for a really long time to make their own decisions.

I don't have leadership/trust issues; I have a Tibetan Mastiff.

Then we'll just disagree....They are dogs first, breeds second and you shouldn't use the breed of your dog as an excuse. No one is perfect, I know this all too well. I've made mistakes with my dogs as well....leadership is an ever evolving process but if you aren't willing to look at yourself as the problem, instead of your dog, then you won't improve and neither will you dog. 99% of dog "issues" are really "human" issues. It's not a breed thing...that is a cop out. It's like saying all CC's are aggressive or that all Poodles bark....doesn't work with me.

Have you ever worked, not just seen, but seriously attempted to work with a LGD or other primitive? Cause its pretty obvious you haven't. TMs don't give a care WHAT their owner wants. Period end of story.

 

[season]

Have you ever worked, not just seen, but seriously attempted to work with a LGD or other primitive? Cause its pretty obvious you haven't. TMs don't give a care WHAT their owner wants. Period end of story.

Another easy excuse. It helps take responsibility out of the owners hands. It's like, "Hey, what kind of dog should I get? Hmmmm, let me get a dog that doesn't care what I want or expect out of him. Sweet. Sounds like a great idea, then I can go on a message board and ask for advice about how to get my TM (who won't listen anyway, cause they don't care) to do what I expect."

C'mon, give me a break.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Another easy excuse. It helps take responsibility out of the owners hands. It's like, "Hey, what kind of dog should I get? Hmmmm, let me get a dog that doesn't care what I want or expect out of him. Sweet. Sounds like a great idea, then I can go on a message board and ask for advice about how to get my TM (who won't listen anyway, cause they don't care) to do what I expect."

C'mon, give me a break.

How about you stop being a jerk. Get some LGD experience. And then come back with valid ideas instead of snark because you can't understand the concept of a dog who doesn't give a shit about his owner's thoughts on his behavior.

 

[season]

How about you stop being a jerk. Get some LGD experience. And then come back with valid ideas instead of snark because you can't understand the concept of a dog who doesn't give a shit about his owner's thoughts on his behavior.

And then she resorts to name calling and swearing. Nice work.

 

[broccolini]

Then we'll just disagree....They are dogs first, breeds second and you shouldn't use the breed of your dog as an excuse. No one is perfect, I know this all too well. I've made mistakes with my dogs as well....leadership is an ever evolving process but if you aren't willing to look at yourself as the problem, instead of your dog, then you won't improve and neither will you dog. 99% of dog "issues" are really "human" issues. It's not a breed thing...that is a cop out. It's like saying all CC's are aggressive or that all Poodles bark....doesn't work with me.

Yes, clearly they are dogs first and they can all be trained exactly the same. The whole breed thing is all about how the dogs look.

My TM is just a fluffier version of your CC so I should be able to apply everything that works for you to my dog.

I'll get right on that.

 

[ruthcatrin]

And then she resorts to name calling and swearing. Nice work.

Well if you're going to be an idiot (not to mention insulting) and insist that all dogs are the same......obviously a Shihtzu is a Border Collie is a Lab is a CC is a TM......

 

[season]

Yes, clearly they are dogs first and they can all be trained exactly the same. The whole breed thing is all about how the dogs look.

My TM is just a fluffier version of your CC so I should be able to apply everything that works for you to my dog.

I'll get right on that.

If you want to be able to walk your dog on a leash without pulling? Then yes. And that's what I have been referring too. I give the same advice to anyone that has trouble with walking there dogs....dogs of any breed. I'm here to help and give honest advice. Advice that has worked for me working with many different dog breeds. If you don't like my advice feel free to skip over it...no hair off my head. Take what you want and use it....or don't....but if all your looking for is validation as to why you can't walk your dog properly then yes, skip over my advice, because I won't validate by blaming the breed. If your TM is bred not to "care WHAT their owner wants" then why are you bothering even trying to walk it? I'm going to get out of this emotional dream world that this thread has become. Good luck with the issues.

 

[broccolini]

Well if you're going to be an idiot (not to mention insulting) and insist that all dogs are the same......obviously a Shihtzu is a Border Collie is a Lab is a CC is a TM......

I'm going to get a Fila and train it to be a therapy dog.

As long as it trusts me, I should be able to let it roam free around strange people.

 

[ruthcatrin]

If you want to be able to walk your dog on a leash without pulling? Then yes. And that's what I have been referring too. I give the same advice to anyone that has trouble with walking there dogs....dogs of any breed. I'm here to help and give honest advice. Advice that has worked for me working with many different dog breeds. If you don't like my advice feel free to skip over it...no hair off my head. Take what you want and use it....or don't....but if all your looking for is validation as to why you can't walk your dog properly then yes, skip over my advice, because I won't validate by blaming the breed. If your TM is bred not to "care WHAT their owner wants" then why are you bothering even trying to walk it? I'm going to get out of this emotional dream world that this thread has become. Good luck with the issues.

You didn't offer anything in the way of advice, you insulted and demeaned and showed a distinct lack of a clue when it comes to the variations of dog breeds.

 

[ruthcatrin]

I'm going to get a Fila and train it to be a therapy dog.

As long as it trusts me, I should be able to let it roam free around strange people.

I'll be there with the video camera! But I claim the spot on the roof of the closest house as my perch!