Considering RAW

[Oscar'sMom]

Ok I'm over kibble and runny poo. I'm not sure if I'm fully committed on switching RAW yet but I'm researching. I e red a lot on this sub forum...forgive me in advance because I know a lot of my answers can be hunted for on here . So I get that I should just start with raw chicken...2% of his expected body weight so 4lbs per day. I need a scale. Do I need a food grinder or not to worry about it? No weight bearing bones. Wait a few weeks before introducing organs? Bones are ok at first (non-weight bearing)? When to introduce different proteins? I can def search sales and buy reduced meat to freeze (need a freezer). Do you portion out when you buy and freeze or portion for the week? How do I know what kind of food to give him? Do you just eyeball the 80-10-10? This is something I've wanted to do all along but kibble was so easy to just toss in the bowl and call it a day. Do I still supplement (coconut oil and glucosamine)? Or not necessary because he's getting more nutrients in the food? How long does it take to notice a difference? Regurgitation is normal while adjusting?

So. Many. Questions.

Thanks!

 

[angelbears]

Saw this right at time to feed my demons. I'll respond a little later. Many others on here that give excellent advise. It's not hard at all.

 

[twood71]

You can start off weighing, but you will end up eye balling and just knowing portion sizes. Remember it's a over all monthly diet. so as long as you 80/10/10 in the month and watch the poo!

You have the rest pretty much correct.

Introduce organ meat on times your there the following morning, organ meet in the beginning can back fire!! Not fun cleaning up poo in the mornings.

Now I bought a freezer but found out I really didn't use it. I didn't buy a months worth of food, I bought a weeks worth and really didn't have a chance to freeze anything because I was unthawing the meat so soon.

It is a great Diet, highly recommend it, if your only doing one dog. If it is more than one dog, you would need help in my opinion.

What I'm saying is if the rest in your house hold doesn't have the passion you have on the diet, then all you do is set up the meals for them but when that came to 3 dogs for me, it was killing me! lol

It's messy, blood in the fridge, floor and walls. You will have to clean alot!

BUT again, great diet and I have seen a 180 turn around on the dogs attitude, coat, smell (which is awesome) and appetite!

They loved eating time, they would dance!!!

 

[Hector]

When I fed raw I just bought whatever was cheaper - chicken. I never followed the 80-10-10 rule strictly. I fed organs 1-2x a week. I mainly fed whole chicken cut into 4 quarters. Sometimes when I get lazy, I buy drumsticks and leg quarters. I never really switched proteins completely. I just added either beef or pork or turkey to the chicken. I never ground anything. Turkey bones such as a turkey drumstick scares me. I found the bones to be much more dense than chicken and found them to splinter, so I never gave that again. When feeding beef ribs, I also do not feed normal ribs because again I found them to splinter. The splinter caused an abscess in one of the old dogs that I knew. I only feed half racks of baby back ribs. My dogs never regurgitated raw. Dogs didn't have any poop issues. I used to feed raw, but I feed kibble now. Sometimes I alternate raw and kibble in different meals and sometimes I even mix them - never had poop issues.

In the beginning, yes I weighed everything out and froze the portions - but you get used to it and can eyeball it later on (like I can just give Hector 1 piece of a whole chicken that's cut up into 4 sections). I don't supplement with coconut oil. I really don't think it's necessary and adjust portions according to their body condition.

These are just some of things I've done.

 

[Oscar'sMom]

Hector how come you switched back to kibble? Any reason in particular?

I've read that liver shouldn't be overdone? Yea? I mean it is a filter and kinda gross anyway (even though I do love a good chicken liver!). So if you do 1-2 organs a week do you make that a meal or in addition to?

 

[Hector]

Oh I got tired of going to the store and buying 60-80lbs of meat at once lol. The only reason I stuck to raw for about 2 yrs is because Hector couldn't eat kibble. He would get runs all the time, but I think his immune system and digestive is stronger now and can handle the kibble fine so I just feed kibble for selfish reasons.

Add liver to the meal. Really, don't just feed liver alone lol. I also found that my dogs don't really digest raw gizzards well for some reason. I see chunks of it in poo, sometimes whole ones..

 

[TricAP]

We add ours in addition to - a whole meal of organ meats will give very soft poops to our dogs. Angus won't eat chicken livers unless frozen. Beef liver he loves frozen chunks as well but will eat thawed - same for beef heart - his favorite!We had a cow butchered a few months ago and saved all the goodies and dressed them myself, including the tripe. Some on the Forum feed tripe as a meat - we use it more as an extra - too much of a good thing can cause massive mastiff farts that make the paint peel for Angus.

As if you aren't already an expert on Oscars poop - if you go raw you'll become one. Too much white means too much bone. Although some days they are more white than others depending on what's fed. Best part - they are MUCH MUCH MUCH smaller piles to pick up and much less odoriferous!!! As far as other bones go - our dogs never get one unless they are being supervised. Angus tries to bury them and they can splinter if he gets too zealous. If that happens they get taken away. I weigh them before and then after to guestimate how much they got.

 

[NYDDB]

You have the basic info, really-- try not to over-think this process, and keep it simple (which, as you go along, you will find easier to do.)

Most start with a single protein, usually chicken...quarters are a good choice for large dogs. You might want to take the skin off at first; later keep it on if you want.

Careful with adding organ meat, as others have suggested.

I do find a small chest freezer invaluable- I can stock up and not have to worry about shopping all the time. Also, I order from Hare-Today.com every couple of months, and it's nice to have a place to freeze everything on a large order.

Mateo doesn't regurgitate or vomit- guess I'm lucky there. Some dogs do, though.

Personally, I think the coconut oil craze is a little much. I mean, it does have some healthful properties, but several tbsps. every day? I don't agree with that- not needed, IMO. Give it every once in awhile, if you feel your dog's coat may need a boost (I feel the same about fish oil...I don't give it, but then again, I feed fresh (frozen) raw oily fish quite often as Mateo likes it.

I also don't feed turkey legs or even wings because of the splinter factor....but, some dogs are ok with it. Watch your dog, his poop, and feed what he does well on- and what you have avilable and feel comfortable feeding.

And remember: "Balance Over Time"---don't stress about meeting certain requirements at every single meal.

Have fun with it.

 

[Oscar'sMom]

You all are so awesome. I'm starting to get a handle on it I think. I'm type A and a planner! Haha . What about kissing him? After he eats? I kiss my dog on the mouth and proud of it haha

 

[TricAP]

Ever heard the adage "clean as a hounds tooth?" Angus gets too many kisses to count in a day - much to his mortification. I can literally see the eye rolls and hear "AWWWW mom - not again!" He always gets a face wipe after eating and I do check to make sure nothing is stuck between his teeth. Early on he did get a piece of chicken skin caught between teeth. No issues with "raw cooties".

Now after he has his "private boy time" - that's another story! No kisses without a full face wash. Yes male dogs can be so gross sometimes!

 

[Oscar'sMom]

Ever heard the adage "clean as a hounds tooth?" Angus gets too many kisses to count in a day - much to his mortification. I can literally see the eye rolls and hear "AWWWW mom - not again!" He always gets a face wipe after eating and I do check to make sure nothing is stuck between his teeth. Early on he did get a piece of chicken skin caught between teeth. No issues with "raw cooties".

Now after he has his "private boy time" - that's another story! No kisses without a full face wash. Yes male dogs can be so gross sometimes!

Hahahah "private time" I guess I can do that! Just wipe with a baby wipe?

 

[TricAP]

They work great!

 

[angelbears]

Be careful with the liver. They need liver, I believe it is something that you can't leave out. However, too much over time can be toxic.

Cane always kissed me after he ate, sometimes I was quick enough to swipe him with the towel, especially if he was all lathered up from working on a bone. Half the time I never even bothered. Never got sick. However, Cane did the sweetest nose bump, no tongue.

 

[cj-sharpy]

try not to over-think this process
Have fun with it.

Agreed.
Its actually pretty easy once you're up and running.
80/10/10 is the accepted guide line but don't beat your self up about it, a little bit this way or that won't do any harm. White poo means too much bone so just reduce the amount.Runny poo means too much organ meat.

Another good idea is to look for a dedicated animal feed supplier. i found a place on an industrial estate that buys up meat and carcasses that are not fit for human consumption and grinds them for dog food. 50pence a lb rather that £3 a pound in supermarket. Human grade meat is a waste of money and a LOT of the animal is wasted cos we just don't buy it.
Tripe is awesome, green tripe mind you, not the bleached white stuff we eat.

If you do swap do it cold turkey. Don't feed for a day to clear his system a bit then start on the raw and give any kibble you have to a shelter. Do not mix them or alternate between the two.
Kibble fed dogs stomach acid is more neutral as they attempt to get the goodness out of it, around ph4-5 IIRC and a raw fed dogs is far more acidic at more like ph1. This means that alternating between raw and kibble his stomach is never geared up to get all the goodness out.
This is the main reason Ive seen for people trying and quitting and going back to kibble because they think heir dog got the squirts on raw, where actually they were mixing raw and kibble to try to lower the dog or them selves in gently.
The lower Ph is also more than capable of dealing with bone and nasties like salmonella and eColli.

Veg, some give greens and some don't. the thing to remember is that once on a raw diet he again wont have the enzyms to get the best out of greens, so either blend well, freeze and thaw (freeze flat in bags so you get a sheet of soup that defrosts quick) or again feed green tripe. The green in green tripe is grass that has already been broken down by the animal that ate it.

Supplements, well here's where I get shot down a bit. MY opinion is that they are best for people that are feeding human grade meat. less fat, less calcium, no cartilage, no connective tissue etc etc etc. All the gross bits, so yes you may need supplements. But if you are feeding animal grade stuff then all that stuff goes in. rust me I've seen the lads forcing heads through the grinders so there's a lot of good healthy stuff in there. Andrew Zimman would love it.

 

[cj-sharpy]

Be careful with the liver. They need liver, I believe it is something that you can't leave out. However, too much over time can be toxic.

Aim for half organ meat should be liver, so more like 80/10/5/5%. but adjust as you see fit, Some like a little more some a little less. Ive no idea on the % max gets as its ground up so varies between mixes but I know its in there.
Also dehydrated liver is like crack to dogs, best treat ever.

 

[twood71]

Again the feeding is easy, it's the mess in the fridge and the floor and sometimes the wall that is hard to keep up.

The first thing I noticed on my Mastiffs was the coat, top of thier heads was SOooo soft!

 

[Oscar'sMom]

Thanks everyone! It seems like a much more doable task after hearing everyone's experiences and opinion. I am supposed to have a food shipment on Tuesday from chewy, so if I can get a butcher or two called and some meet purchased at a reasonable price...we will start asap!

 

[cj-sharpy]

DogAware.com: Raw Dog Food Co-ops and Local Groups

rawstartexplained

 

[Oscar'sMom]

DogAware.com: Raw Dog Food Co-ops and Local Groups

rawstartexplained

Thanks cj! I wish there were some co-ops near us ...but I'm working on calling some butchers today!

 

[angelbears]

Don't forget your local supermarkets. If you have the time it is the cheapest way to go, at least for me. Especially, pork and chicken. Always watch your adds even if you don't do the reduce section.

Pork ribs and butts. At least every other month one our local stores will have them for under 2.00 a pound. I have seen them recently for 1.77 and .99.

Last week I bought chicken quarters for .49 a pound in 10 pound bags.

Asian markets are great for a variety of organs and for duck heads. They will bargain with you if you buy in bulk. Don't be shy, everyone else is doing it.