Do you think ear crop/tail dock will ever be banned?

[Duetsche_Doggen]

I mean ENTIRELY?

Honestly I so SICK of anti-crop/dock people boasting that other countries are "ahead of the times" because they ban these "mutilating barbaric" surgeries. I have yet to crop/dock any dogs, BUT I would at least like a CHOICE. Not have have it taken away because anti-rights people view it as cruel. They talk about the pain involved in the surgery, yet for some reason there is no pain with spay or neuter. Yes the surgery is purely cosmetic and serves no health benefits. BUT its a CHOICE I still want to make.

Sorry for the rant but geez fighting sheep can be tiring.......

 

[bluebutterfly]

I dont see a problem with it.. as long as it is done by a qualified vet and taken care of properly afterwards in the case of ears.. I dont agree with DIY dock/crops. I dont think it should be banned.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Donno. Drives me nuts too. Sure I don't care for cropping/docking myself, but then I don't advocate for spay/neuter "just cause" (I think every dog owner should be educated on the pro's and con's and how to control and manage an intact dog and allowed to make the educated choice), I don't believe in removing dewclaws "just cause" (working, herding, or hunting dogs are at risk for carching them on things, but your average pet not so much).....and I will admit that a well done crop can look stunning. As long as its done by a vet, with proper medical equipement, I don,t have a problem with someone having it done.

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

That's the problem the "just because" people are always shoving their "facts" down your throats.

Butterfly I wish more people would think like you, there are some things in this world I don't like but everyone should at least have a choice.

 

[aceoutdoor]

I think the government should stay out of our business. But to answer your question I believe someday it will be illegal in the states, along with alot of other things. That being said I would never dock anything to satisfy my taste for an animals appearance, I would however dock a tail if it served a working purpose. Dogs use their tails to communicate with each other and humans(some to great degrees), and dogs especially large and giant breeds use their tails for balance.

DD do you think this is ok?

 

[DMikeM]

For true working dogs there can be a need to do this. Boerboels were docked so baboons wouldn't grab the tail and control the dog (so the story is told). Anatolians (CAO, Kangal, BOZ) have cropped ears to help prevent infection in harsh environments where vetranary care is not available, and to prevent blood loss from preditor encounters. Some dogs look great some look tortured. I think having a choice is the right way to go.

 

[smfidler]

Donno. Drives me nuts too. Sure I don't care for cropping/docking myself, but then I don't advocate for spay/neuter "just cause" (I think every dog owner should be educated on the pro's and con's and how to control and manage an intact dog and allowed to make the educated choice), I don't believe in removing dewclaws "just cause" (working, herding, or hunting dogs are at risk for carching them on things, but your average pet not so much).....and I will admit that a well done crop can look stunning. As long as its done by a vet, with proper medical equipement, I don,t have a problem with someone having it done.

We've been debating on Bentleys extra toe, bc it doesn't have a bone it does sometimes move when he walks and you can see it does effect him. But at the same time, it doesn't seem to hurt him. We plan on waiting til we have him neutered, no sense in putting him under more than we have to. IDK tho, we have two yrs so I guess we will decide sometime.

Anywho, I think cropping looks good, but I couldn't do it to my own dog, and I don't think that anyone should stop owners from having that right. It does seem cruel to me, but that's just my opinion, and yea I see the point about comparing to having them spayed/neutered but I would rather everyone spay than have so many dogs put to sleep every yr.

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

Ace, as long as I didn't pay for it and its not in my home, have at it ink too!

Smfidler I don't even agree with S/N surgery. Dogs are PTS because of irresponsible people, a "full" dog in their possession is a side effect. Many people have full dogs that don't create litters.

 

[ruthcatrin]

We've been debating on Bentleys extra toe, bc it doesn't have a bone it does sometimes move when he walks and you can see it does effect him. But at the same time, it doesn't seem to hurt him. We plan on waiting til we have him neutered, no sense in putting him under more than we have to. IDK tho, we have two yrs so I guess we will decide sometime.

But see, that wouldn't be "just because", if its affecting the way he walks theres a reason to remove it. Though I'm glad yo're waiting till he's neutered.

And the arguement over killing shelter pets is a long one, but I don't believe its nessecery for even half those animals to ne put down, nor do they have to be held onto for-forever if some thought was put into it. My local shelter gripes about not being able to adopt out animals, but REFUSED to allow me to adopt soley because Apollo's intact. The dog we wanted was already spayed. There was no risk of us trying to breed her. They euthanised her for contracting a URI a week later. I had two more rescues turn us down for the exact same NON-reason. And I'm not the only one who's had that sort of experience. They don,t have to put those dogs down and they don't have to hold them for forever, so frankly that argument is BS. Besides. If everyone spayed or neutered their dogs you wouldn't have Bentley so please don't use that arguement either.

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

Ruth I agree, some rescues shoot themselves in the foot. I experienced the same thing when I wanted to do the "right" thing and adopt a cat from a shelter. Another incident was that I didn't live in their local county. But that's another issue.

As for S/N population reduction so if no dogs weren't allow to be breed. No one would be able to ge the dog they wanted. You call to adopt "What you live in apartment that only allows 25lbs and under, well sorry sir/mame all we have is this." No better situation for the dogs or people.

We all have opinions but I RESPECT others and their choices.

 

[smfidler]

But see, that wouldn't be "just because", if its affecting the way he walks theres a reason to remove it. Though I'm glad yo're waiting till he's neutered.

And the arguement over killing shelter pets is a long one, but I don't believe its nessecery for even half those animals to ne put down, nor do they have to be held onto for-forever if some thought was put into it. My local shelter gripes about not being able to adopt out animals, but REFUSED to allow me to adopt soley because Apollo's intact. The dog we wanted was already spayed. There was no risk of us trying to breed her. They euthanised her for contracting a URI a week later. I had two more rescues turn us down for the exact same NON-reason. And I'm not the only one who's had that sort of experience. They don,t have to put those dogs down and they don't have to hold them for forever, so frankly that argument is BS. Besides. If everyone spayed or neutered their dogs you wouldn't have Bentley so please don't use that arguement either.

I should have worded that better, I don't think EVERY dog should be fixed but I am a supporter of it. It wasn't an arguement just an honest opinion that is mine and I guess I should have kept it to myself.

It's sad they put them down and yea that is BS they denied you for something so dumb. Mastiffs to mutts rescue denied us b/c we don't have a fenced in yard or own our own home. Which I thought was silly.

 

[ruthcatrin]

I should have worded that better, I don't think EVERY dog should be fixed but I am a supporter of it. It wasn't an arguement just an honest opinion that is mine and I guess I should have kept it to myself.

It's sad they put them down and yea that is BS they denied you for something so dumb. Mastiffs to mutts rescue denied us b/c we don't have a fenced in yard or own our own home. Which I thought was silly.

I believe there are people who should not be trusted with an intact animal. And if thats what you meant I'll agree with you completely. But "everyone should spay/neuter because shelter pets are dying" is a line that will piss me off everytime.....My recent experience only confirmed my opinion of it. And honestly it comes off really wrong coming from someone who just spent money on a purebred puppy.

 

[aceoutdoor]

My local shelter gripes about not being able to adopt out animals, but REFUSED to allow me to adopt soley because Apollo's intact.

Did they do a home visit or did you volunteer that info?

 

[ruthcatrin]

I'd have had to provide certain vet records, which list him as intact, but they do a home visit too. Though I suppose Apollo's fluffy enough that they might have missed it if I'd lied on the application. But I make it a point to try not to lie about such things anyway.

 

[smfidler]

I believe there are people who should not be trusted with an intact animal. And if thats what you meant I'll agree with you completely. But "everyone should spay/neuter because shelter pets are dying" is a line that will piss me off everytime.....My recent experience only confirmed my opinion of it. And honestly it comes off really wrong coming from someone who just spent money on a purebred puppy.

It is what I had meant, I didn't convey that very well. I am not saying all dogs should be expensive or that they should all be purebred(Gizmo is shih tzu/jap chin) but I wish people were more responsible. We tried to rescue, but like I said they told us point blank they wouldn't even consider us

 

[ruthcatrin]

Did they do a home visit or did you volunteer that info?

I'd have insisted on allowing him to meet the dog anyway before the adoption was finalized so they'd have seen him anyway. I even pointed to the contract I had with his breeder, and was told to comeback after he was neutered....

 

[ruthcatrin]

. We tried to rescue, but like I said they told us point blank they wouldn't even consider us

It doesn't surprise me. Which is part of why the shelters insisting that they have no choice but to kill for space pisses me off...everything I've seen of you on here says you make a great pet-parent/owner/what-ever you want to call it, regardless of the moving required by the military. But they'll turn you down cause you don't fit their rules with even LOOKING to see if bending them might work in this case.

And we've totally de-railed DD's thread lol, sorry!

 

[dpenning]

Did they do a home visit or did you volunteer that info?

Either way it doesn't matter. I have been rejected from shelters because I have a doggie door. They want dogs locked in a crate inside for 8 hours a day so they don't risk getting out of my 6' privacy fence with locked gates. You sign paperwork allowing them to do home visits even if they don't do one up front and they can take the animal back if they deem your home to be unfit. There was actually a national news story when Ellen gave a dog she adopted to someone else. The shelter said if she couldnt keep the dog she was to return it to them. I don't think Ellen "couldn't" keep the dog, I think the family she gave it to was a good fit. Old story and I don't remember the details but the point is, it doesn't pay to lie to them to get past their ridiculous rules!

 

[smfidler]

It doesn't surprise me. Which is part of why the shelters insisting that they have no choice but to kill for space pisses me off...everything I've seen of you on here says you make a great pet-parent/owner/what-ever you want to call it, regardless of the moving required by the military. But they'll turn you down cause you don't fit their rules with even LOOKING to see if bending them might work in this case.

And we've totally de-railed DD's thread lol, sorry!

Thank you, I thought it was ridiculous and tried to explain to them that we don't own b/c we aren't going to live here for more than a few yrs but nope.

And yep sorry about the hijack!

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

I should have worded that better, I don't think EVERY dog should be fixed but I am a supporter of it. It wasn't an arguement just an honest opinion that is mine and I guess I should have kept it to myself.

It's sad they put them down and yea that is BS they denied you for something so dumb. Mastiffs to mutts rescue denied us b/c we don't have a fenced in yard or own our own home. Which I thought was silly.

No one is arguing, but If I came off strong I apologizeI was a bit heated......I'm tired of being the "bad guy" because I don't conform. You should not feel like you have to keep anything to yourself.

Dane rescue did the same thing to me, I didn't realize fencing was mandatory.