Franklin has a trainer

[ruthcatrin]

I will only add that in my situation, I made things dramatically worse for Sirius with the prong collar. It was all I knew to use when controlling a dog of this size, but it turned out that he is large but extremely sensitive, and the prong caused him anxiety that he associated with my displeasure, and turned an excited, "I really wanna go meet that cool dog over there!" to "Holy crap, my owner gets very upset when she sees another dog - I must get over there and whoop some a**!!"

The prong did not have this effect on my BMs, but I definitely created a monster using it on the dane. Just something I learned along the way!

Yah, they aren't the right tool for every dog. But used correctly they can be the right tool for some dogs.

 

[Penelope's Mom]

For what it's worth, I'm comfortable having this guy work with Franklin and me, but I hate the fact that he'll be gone for a month. Maybe I'm humanizing it too much again, which I'm known to do, but he's never been away from me, and he's never had to sleep in a run. He's always had a soft bed, lots of love, and all the comforts any dog could want. I'm worried about how this will affect him.

 

[Mooshi's Mummy]

Hey at the end of the day she is Franklins owner, and if this is what is needed to help her then go for it. Personally its not for me, I don't like the idea of him using a prong (but you know that already) but if Franklin is that bad, which I didn't realise he was, then God speed, I wish you all the best and hope to read nothing but a good report.

 

[Penelope's Mom]

Thanks, Moo. I will keep you guys updated along the way and if there's anything I don't like or am not comfortable with, I will take him out.

Hey at the end of the day she is Franklins owner, and if this is what is needed to help her then go for it. Personally its not for me, I don't like the idea of him using a prong (but you know that already) but if Franklin is that bad, which I didn't realise he was, then God speed, I wish you all the best and hope to read nothing but a good report.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Hey at the end of the day she is Franklins owner, and if this is what is needed to help her then go for it. Personally its not for me, I don't like the idea of him using a prong (but you know that already) but if Franklin is that bad, which I didn't realise he was, then God speed, I wish you all the best and hope to read nothing but a good report.

He is, unfortunetly, beyond bad enough, that if something happened to her he'd be put down "on the spot" for aggression. As she just learned the hard way not to long ago :/

 

[Amanda F.]

For what it's worth, I'm comfortable having this guy work with Franklin and me, but I hate the fact that he'll be gone for a month. Maybe I'm humanizing it too much again, which I'm known to do, but he's never been away from me, and he's never had to sleep in a run. He's always had a soft bed, lots of love, and all the comforts any dog could want. I'm worried about how this will affect him.

I felt the same way. I was very comfortable with the people and facility but I couldn't help feeling like I was abandoning my dog. Corso's bond so strongly with their owners I was terrified that I may do more damage than good by leaving him. It was very emotional, I cried like a baby when I dropped him off. I knew he didn't understand why we left him...it was awful. We had tried so many different things (training wise) including a personal trainer but it just didn't work with me handling him. I know now it was my anxiety but I couldn't seem to get over it. For us it was the last resort option and it worked. It wasn't easy by any means. I missed him terribly and cried often. After his program was over and I saw that is was possible for him to be in a room full of dogs and not try to kill them, my anxiety went away. Since his training, we have been approached by a few small dogs who were off leash that ran up to us barking and growling. He immediately went for the dogs to protect me, I told him "leave it" and he did. The dogs didn't attack and he trusted me to back off. I think if anything, our bond was made stronger by the whole experience. I wish you and Franklin the best of luck.

 

[Jeannag]

I can actually vouch for this man. Working as an ACO I've seen him in training classes and sharing training methods. I would trust him completely.

 

[Penelope's Mom]

Thank you for that. I feel much better. He sounded really great on the phone.

I can actually vouch for this man. Working as an ACO I've seen him in training classes and sharing training methods. I would trust him completely.

 

[CeeCee]

I agree there were a few yellow flags for me when I read your initial post, but if you feel comfortable with the Trainer and your gut tells you this is right - then that's the path for you and Franklin.

Just out of curiosity, did he give you any more information on what he means by "tough love?" Is that what he's calling the NILF method? Did he give you any information on his training methods i.e., all positive, blended/balanced, etc. or his training philosophies (for lack of a better word)? If you have any doubts or concerns does he have any past or current clients you can talk with?

For the record, you didn't f*** Franklin up. You did the best you could with the information and tools you had at the time. Now, that you have more information and tools, you are making different decisions. That is ALL that we can ask of ourselves. You don't need to throw yourself on the alter for anyone.

P.S. Franklin will most definitely NOT forget you!

 

[Penelope's Mom]

I think by tough love, he meant life without me. He uses positive reinforcement, but no treats because treats start fights.

Franklin leaves tomorrow.mI'm excited for him but I'm so sad at the same time. I'll miss him so much.

 

[thelady_v2010]

My trainer doesn't use treats either and he did a good job with my dog. I am sorry you wil be sad, I was too. Hugs to both of you!

 

[LizB]

I'm excited, now that I've learned more about the plan for Franklin. Nothing but best wishes for your boy, and I know he'll do great. Hard for you, but it will be good for him. Tough love as in, "this will hurt me more than it hurts you" kind of thing.

 

[Iymala]

I'm excited for both of you. I know you will miss him but it will be a huge increase in quality of life for both of you when he is back. To be able to confidently walk him and manage him in your home with guests will be magnificent.

 

[STEVSH]

We sent our golden away for almost two months when I was in high school for training. We came out to bi-weekly and worked with her on what she'd learned with the guy during that time. She came back the best dog I've ever had. It was amazing.
I wish you the best of luck and personally think you are doing the right thing!

 

[Hector]

I will only add that in my situation, I made things dramatically worse for Sirius with the prong collar. It was all I knew to use when controlling a dog of this size, but it turned out that he is large but extremely sensitive, and the prong caused him anxiety that he associated with my displeasure, and turned an excited, "I really wanna go meet that cool dog over there!" to "Holy crap, my owner gets very upset when she sees another dog - I must get over there and whoop some a**!!"

The prong did not have this effect on my BMs, but I definitely created a monster using it on the dane. Just something I learned along the way!

The prong collar will not work for every dog. For overly sensitive dogs, just simply putting the collar on will cause the dog to shut down. For others, the correction overstimulates the dog, and ups the aggression to another level.

After following many of your posts, I think you made the right decision to let Franklin go. It is for the best for the situation you two are in. I really hope you take into account what the trainer teaches you. It's going to be tough, but you need to be firm and not slip back into old ways. I believe the trainer has enough experience in knowing how to communicate with your dog where he will understand and not be fearful. I think this experience will help Franklin gain the confidence he needs desperately and finely come to a realization that the world is not out to get him. This is an opportunity of a lifetime.

 

[LizB]

The prong collar will not work for every dog. For overly sensitive dogs, just simply putting the collar on will cause the dog to shut down. For others, the correction overstimulates the dog, and ups the aggression to another level.

Exactly. We had no idea Sirius was so sensitive, and what we thought was aggression was actually overexcitement. We had owned only hard-headed BMs and a bully mix before, so we just went with the prong out of habit.

This will give Franklin's trainer an opportunity to really evaluate his behavior and reactions without the influence of the owner, and you'll learn a lot about what Franklin's true triggers are, how to spot his cues, and how to avoid feeding into them. I can't wait to find out how things go.

Between this and Tessa's DNA test results, I'm going to be in suspense for a good while to come....

 

[DennasMom]

The more you talk about this trainer, and the more questions people throw at you - and your responses... the better I feel about the whole program.

It sounds like a great opportunity to me. So glad you're going to send Franklin to 'boarding school' for a short while.

Be sure to stay strong when you drop him off - let him know this is something you want for him, and expect him to do well at... try not to cry until you're back home again... I know a house without a dog always makes me feel empty...

The daily calls and rescue friend visits would make me much more comfortable with the whole situation.
Can't wait to hear how it all goes!!

 

[SavingGrace]

Devils advocate here - shouldn't the bond be built between the owner and the dog, not broken down to be built by a stranger and then again by the owner? The prong collar bothers me as well. Why does he need to use a tool?

I can completely understand your concerns - but I've trained with prong collars (so have many other people on this forum) and have had great success with them. I can't stress enough how great of a tool they can be, especially for hard headed dogs. Although I respect your opinion on the prong collar, its not a negative tool. There are some dogs where it's necessary to use a tool, if for nothing else, to help the process move faster and to gain more consistent commands. Prong collar training is a very calm type of training. There's no yelling, there's no rough-ness with the dog, it's simply an easier (and more down to basics) way to let the dog know what you're asking - while giving you a way to let them know you expect them to do that without question. It accomplishes the same thing a momma dog would if their pup acted up.

Also, with very strong dogs that do have behavioral issues - it is a consistent method, very repetitive. Sit, down, stay - over and over. If the dog doesn't respond (as stubborn dogs will ignore) a slight correction is given. Why wouldn't you use that tool? Especially if it's between you worrying about your dog biting someone, and using a prong collar to give corrections. I'm going with prong collar, and I've seen the results and work with them regularly.

The bond is always with the owner - training, or correcting bad behaviors is a great job for a professional. Especially someone that has experience working with these types of breeds and will work for an extended amount of time with the owner on training after the initial training session is done.

My trainer also rehabilitates rescue dogs for shelters. He does this all the time and recently was shown on Animal Planet helping to train therapy dogs. He offers a boot camp that sounds very similar. The dog goes to boot camp for two weeks, after about a week the owner can visit. It's all prong collar training and the results are wonderful. So many owners (even friends of mine) have done it with dogs they had issues with and they came back trained. So did the owners.

I think this is a great thing for Franklin and he may be confused at first, but in a different environment the trainer will have a chance to work with him, instead of fighting for his attention over guarding the owner and the house.

Training separately from the owner doesn't do anything negative to the bond with the owner at all - in fact, once the owner learns a few things as well it will greatly strengthen the bond between dog and owner.

 

[NYDDB]

Between this and Tessa's DNA test results, I'm going to be in suspense for a good while to come....

LOL...I feel the same way. This is reality, and much more interesting than the t.v. I gave up over 2 weeks ago- plus, I am learning a lot!

 

[Penelope's Mom]

We leave at 10 in the morning. Part of me knows that this is good for him. The other, bigger part knows that he will think I have abandoned him.