Help with choosing puppy formula

[evilfeline007]

So my 18 week old pup is on Royal Canin Giant Puppy which he was on from the breeder and although I am not a royal canin fan, I chose to keep him on it for the time being until I had figured out something better. However, I've gone through 3 bags now because I'm a little lost. I found this info on a site for what to look for in a giant puppy formula:

• It must be a Holistic or Super Premium level dog food (read the bag for those words)
• Company is owned by a family or individual NOT a large corporation.
• USDA or Human Grade are necessary words to look for on the website and phamplets abaout the food. They are not allowed to put some words on the bags of foods so check the websites.
• You want PROBIOTICS on the food
• Protein levels 23-26%
  
• Fat 12%-16%
• Moderate calories per cup 350 - 400
• Calcium - 1.2% - 1.5%
• Multiple proteins - at least 2 - in food (meats/eggs/fish)- so all amino acid bases are covered: chicken/fish/eggs or pork/chicken/fish or turkey/fish/beef

but i don't know how accurate this is so I could use some feedback on that.

Also, I have two websites from local dog food stores that I could go to. These sites list the brands they sell:
http://www.woofys.ca/food-products/
http://www.bosleys.com/food_supplies_care/dogs/dog-food-brands/overview.aspx

I thought maybe you guys would recognise brands that you like to feed on there. It seems like the protein is always to high. I feed Taste of the Wild to my other animals. I found out after it was made from a big company but its the only food that my lab can eat without getting an allergic reaction so I dont want to mess with a good thing.
[URL="http://www.bosleys.com/food_supplies_care/dogs/dog-food-brands/overview.aspx"]
An[/URL]yways... some help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Smokeycat]

I feed Go! Their shine and sensitivity formulas work for mastiff puppies. Many people here feed Earthborn but it seems to be hard to find in Canada. I have heard of some of the Acana and Blue formulas working as well. What you want to watch out for is the calcium and phosphorus levels. I don't remember the range for calcium but the calcium: phosphorus ratio should be close to 1.2:1. Also some mastiffs have problems with food allergies, my 8 month EM can't have any form of poultry.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Calcium range 1-1.8

The rest...well, they'd be NICE, but as to REQUIREMENTS, I donno. Avoid corn, and look closely at foods where the first ingredient isn't an animal product, and if the 2nd ingredient isn't an animal product TOO then skip it. Avoid 'byproduct meal' and avoid unidentified meats and fats, so for example "chicken meal" is ok, as is "chicken fat" but "chicken byproduct meal" and "meat meal" or "poultry meal" isn't (unidentified meats give them room to screw with you, and you don't want to know what byproduct meal is). And "human grade" doesn't nessecarily mean much, to be honest.

Protein count isn't as big a deal as long as the calcium/phos is under control, so worry less about that. Ditto fat.

TOTW isn't a favorite cause Diamond sucks, but otherwise its not a bad food so id he's doing wellon it I won,t argue with you.

I'm not on my computer so its hard for me to research brands, but Acana and Orijen are both good brands, just check the calcium/phos numbers as not all formulas match. You've got alot to choose from!

 

[evilfeline007]

I used to feed both orijen and arcana and I guess i'm reluctant because the high protein content caused a lot of problems for my other animals.
One of the ones I liked was summit which is made by the same people as now/go
http://www.petcurean.com/for-dogs/summit/originals-three-meat-puppy
[URL="http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/?product=61&code=1701"]http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/products/?product=61&code=1701
[URL="http://holisticselect.com/large-breed-dry-puppy-food-lamb-meal-and-oatmeal#guaranteed-analysis"]http://holisticselect.com/large-breed-dry-puppy-food-lamb-meal-and-oatmeal#guaranteed-analysis

I [/URL]t[/URL]hink those are my top three choices but i'll look into the now brand.... I probably missed it because i was specifically looking for puppy food

 

[DDBsR4Me]

If I had a pup I'd go with the Orijen LB Puppy....or maybe one of the Fromm varieties (though I'm not sure which if any are appropriate for a large breed pup).

 

[evilfeline007]

Thanks for the suggestion on the orijen! I love the tasty sounding ingredients. I ruled out the summit and holistic because of ruthcatrin's comment on the ingredients list.

So it's Solid Gold Wolfcub vs Orijen Large Breed Puppy:

SOLID GOLD:

Protein, Min 26%
Fat, Min 12%
Fiber, Max 4%
Moisture, Max 10%
Calcium, Max 1.5%
Phosphorus, Max 1.2%
Calories per cup, 375

Ingredients

Bison, Ocean Fish Meal, Brown Rice, Millet, Cracked Pearled Barley, Rice Bran, Canola Oil, Tomato Pomace, Flaxseed, Natural Flavoring, Salmon Oil (source of DHA), Choline Chloride, Taurine, Dried Chicory Root, Parsley Flakes, Pumpkin Meal, Almond Oil, Sesame Oil, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Thyme, Blueberries, Cranberries, Carrots, Broccoli, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Potassium Iodide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Manganese Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Calcium Panthothenate, Manganese Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 (Cyanocobalamin), Riboflavin, Vitamin D Supplement, Folic Acid


ORIJEN:

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude protein (min.)	38.0 %
Crude fat (min.)	16.0 %
Crude fiber (max.)	3.0 %
Moisture (max.)	10.0 %
Calcium (min./max.)	1.5 % / 1.7 %
Phosphorus (min./max.)	1.2 % / 1.4 %
Omega-6 (min.)	2.6 %
Omega-3 (min.)	1 %
DHA (min.)	0.6 %
EPA (min.)	0.3 %
AA (min.)	0.12 %
Carbohydrate (max.)	25%
Ash (max.)	7.5%
Taurine (min.)	0.35 %
Glucosamine (min.)	1400 mg/kg
Chondroitin (min.)	1200 mg/kg
Microorganisms (min.)	120M cfu/kg
pH	5.5

INGREDIENTS
Fresh boneless chicken*, chicken meal, fresh boneless salmon*, turkey meal, herring meal, russet potato, sweet potato, peas, fresh boneless turkey*, chicken fat, (preserved with mixed tocopherols), fresh whole eggs*, fresh chicken liver*, fresh boneless lake whitefish* fresh boneless walleye*, sun-cured alfalfa, pea fiber, fresh boneless herring*, organic kelp, pumpkin, chicory root, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, blueberries, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers, sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile, dandelion, summer savory, rosemary, vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, d-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, selenium yeast, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Enterococcus faecium. *
* DELIVERED FRESH, preservative-free and never frozen.

 

[Smokeycat]

Either one looks like it will work. Personally I would choose the solid gold since my dogs have had issues with either a protein source or high protein levels being too rich for him.

 

[ruthcatrin]

If it helps it doesn't have to be a "puppy" food. If you sit down and compare there's often very little difference between the puppy and the adult formulas, other than price and the calcium/phos numbers.

I could do without the rice and barely right up in the top of the Solid gold, but then, some dogs DO have issues with Orijen being to rich. I do like that Orijen puts both min and max on its labels though, most companies only put the minimum and god only knows what the actual number is....

 

[evilfeline007]

I totally agree ruthcatrin!
I really like the orijen ingredients.

I realised that the royal canin puppy crap is actually 32.5 % protein so going up to 38% probably wont affect my pup too much.

It still seems the jury is out on whether high protein is bad or not for giant breed pups. Is there something I should look out for if I switch to orijen? Looking at the ingredients for royal canin makes me sick, i can't believe vets sell that stuff.

Ingredients
Brewers rice, chicken meal, wheat gluten, corn, corn gluten meal, chicken fat, natural flavours, dried beet pulp, sodium silico aluminate, vegetable oil, fish oil, brewers dried yeast, potassium phosphate, salt, ground psyllium husk, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, fructooligosaccharides, L-lysine, hydrolyzed yeast, choline chloride, taurine, glucosamine hydrochloride, L-carnitine, marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), biotin, D-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, niacin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), riboflavin supplement (vitamin B2), folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], trace minerals (zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), chondroitin sulfate, rosemary extract, preserved with natural mixed tocopherols and citric acid.

1 cup = 8 fluid oz = 95 grams

Analysis table	Amount
Crude Protein (% min.)	32.5
Crude Fat (% min.)	12.5
Crude Fibre (% max.)	3.5
Moisture (% max.)	10.0
Omega 3 (% min.)	0.58
Energy (kcal/cup)	364.0
Metabolizable Energy (calculated) (kcal/kg)	3836.0

Minerals	Amount
Calcium (% min.)	0.9
Phosphorus (% min.)	0.75

 

[ruthcatrin]

Yah, I've had arguements with my vet over feeding the prescription diets.....

Nothing else I can think of, go slow in making the change, if it takes a couple weeks before he's on orijen completely, then so be it. But slower gives his system more time to adjust to the new food and makes it less likely there'll be issues.