I need a little help...

[Penelope's Mom]

Here is tonght's walk report for anyone who still cares. Lol

We made it about 15 minutes. We avoided getting too close to people, but we did let him stop and look at some kids that were playing. He acted like a dog who has never been on a leash before. Everytime he pulled I stopped and he always came back to me. When he did that, I made him sit, clicked, and gave him a treat.
The only real problem we had was when the ice cream man passed by on his bike. The guy avoided him but Franklin tried to lunge. Luckily, I had my daughter with me, and between the two of us, he didn't make it very far.

Now, maybe I don't understand, but if the goal is to get him used to people, shouldn't I not be avoiding people?

 

[ruthcatrin]

You want to avoid tons of people. A few isn't a bad thing, but lots will overwhelm.

 

[Hector]

I'm glad you keep the updates coming. At the moment, it sounds like nothing can come close to you or else you will fall on your face or someone/something will get hurt. Franklin needs lots of space. He hates people, you sure he isn't a fila? It sounds like he's made a bit of progress. Keep your walks short and keep your distance from people. Overtime, this distance between people and dogs will become less and less. It takes a lot of work, but you should see improvements every week. How short do you keep the leash? How did you walk Franklin when he was young? How and when did he develop these aggression issues? I'm just curious.

 

[Penelope's Mom]

He's pure EM unless he's hiding something from me.

When he was a puppy, he learned everything so quickly! I could teach him whatever I wanted in only an hour or two and all we had to do was consistently practice for him to get it.
Except leash training. I don't know what it was about the leash but he hated it. I would put it on his collar and let him walk around with it in the house and he would shake and scream (not just cry...scream), and hide in the bedroom.
Eventually, we got past that and started taking trips outside. Again, he was extremely fearful, he would walk a few steps, stop and stand directly in front of me. I tried toys, treats, and the clicker to reward him during the times he handled his walk well, which wasn't very often. So, I stopped taking him out as often. When he got too big and unruly, that is.
We stopped going for walks and kept the leash only for potty breaks.
Now, he doesn't hate the leash and looks forward to going outside, but instead of being afraid of the leash, he's afraid of everything else due to my failure at continued socialization.
It's my fault he's broken and I should be the one to fix him, and that's what I'm trying to do.
I know what a sweet, calm boy he can be and I'm trying to give him back the confidence he needs to at the very least, be happy outside like a normal dog.
I've leash trained quite a few dogs, but I have never had one react to the leash like my F-Bomb.
Now, as long as no people or animals are around, he does ok except for the pulling, which we're working on. But when someone gets too close, all bets are off.

 

[musicdeb]

What does Franklin do before he lunges? Does he stare at the other person and his body tenses with mouth closed? I know Hector will growl at people in the store if they look at him and say aww he's cute. If they don't talk to him or stare at him, he'd be fine a couple feet away. They key is to snap him out of that moment before he decides to lunge. Is he responsive to his name? Either say his name, grab a toy, walk a different direction, anything that will grab his attention. Have you tried clicker training Franklin? Did you get him to sit several times while the man talked to you/him? or just stared?

Totally agree, Hector.

 

[musicdeb]

Titan is not Fila and I had the same issue with him. After almost 11 months of socialize him, I can now walk about 2-3 feet from someone and he's ok UNLESS they talk or look at him. He lunged this morning at a guy who passed us walking but stared down at Titan. I could tell Titan was going to lunge, so I pulled him away up into the grassy area. I put Titan into sit and told him to look at me. He looked at me (I was shocked) and I told him that it was ok. We proceeded to walk.

It takes a LOT of patience and consistency in the training. I take Titan to a park that has a lot of people walking and running where I used to take him to a park that had a few people in the morning. He graduated to a busier park and he does fine UNLESS they look (by look I mean stare him in the eyes) or talk to him.

 

[Hector]

Here are two videos I found on youtube, they are a bit long, but I think they will be good for you. It is a part 1 and part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4kHsaUSylQ

[video=youtube;pcQ8sauoMV0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcQ8sauoMV0[/video]

 

[Hector]

They have other great videos worth watching

 

[Hector]

Here's videos using a prong collar

[video=youtube;BzfzVl2dwWA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzfzVl2dwWA[/video]

[video=youtube;i8WEi9BfTIc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8WEi9BfTIc[/video]

 

[Penelope's Mom]

I have the world's slowest internet connection, but I'll watch these as I can. Thank for posting them.

 

[Penelope's Mom]

Today's walk didn't happen. There were so many people out. He lunged twice before we even left the driveway.

I'm so upset.

 

[Hector]

I'm sorry, maybe tomorrow will be better. Would it be possible just to let him sit and watch from the driveway. Short sessions, bring him back to the house before he reacts?

 

[Penelope's Mom]

We sit on the patio and watch. I have a gate up that he can't get through so he feels safe there. The way the houees are set up, you can't really see people coming until they're right up on us, so sometimes he gets surprised by people walking by.

 

[musicdeb]

Believe me, I feel your frustration. Like I said, it took me over a year to where Titan will now walk around people without lunging at everyone. I know the cues that he's going to lunge and stop him before he does it. This means I have to constantly aware of who is around us and who is approaching, sorta like a secret service person protecting the prez.

Don't give up... Baby steps... You've been given a lot of great suggestions and advice, now the ball is in your court to take action.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Yup, baby steps. Its going to feel like you're barely moving, if moving at all, progress wise.

Right now, honestly, I think your goal should be to choose walk times that result in fewer interactions, so that you can watch him for his signals (I wasn't joking about the closed mouth, many of these guys carry their mouth open when walking, and many of them that sudden closing of the mouth is a sign that something's got their attention), and learn to stop the lunge before it starts.

Thats enough of a goal to start with, trust me, and being able to read him, and stop him, will be a huge confidence booster for you, which will also help.

 

[musicdeb]

When Titan is getting ready to lunge, he goes into a trance staring at the person. His body gets tight and his tail goes up. Then he gets into the lunge position. Once I see the trance look, I snap him out of him by telling him leave it and move him away from his target. I then make him sit and look at me.

 

[CeeCee]

I've been catching up on this thread and I just want to tell you that I think you're doing an amazing job! Many others would have given up by now and just avoided things that set their dog off.

As many have said, it is a long sometimes frustrating and even scary process, but you're not giving up. You figuring out what works for you and for Franklin. You're asking for help and you are continuing to work through it. You are suffering fools and I'm sure your fair share of dirty looks, but your committed! Good for you!

One of the posts recommended a muzzle and I have to say I think it's a brilliant idea! I know what it has done for my confidence with Zeek. Knowing that he can't hurt anyone gives me a larger window in which to observe his triggers and behaviors and to learn his tells.

As others have said, once you know these you can redirect him before he explodes.

As far as teats go, make sure they are SUPER HIGH value for Franklin and only use that treat when you are out walking. (If he wants the REALLY good stuff he has to work for it.) For Zeek, I used chuck steak. For Lila I used raw hamburger. You're giving him small pieces as reward (half the size of last knuckle of your pinkey finger) and when he does something really good...JACKPOT!!! ...and you are his slot machine...the treats just keep coming!! Remember to celebrate with love and praise!!!

 

[Penelope's Mom]

I'm not giving up on him yet. As I've said before, he's messed up because of me, and I'll do what it takes to fix him.

I didn't have the money to order his prong collar yet, nut I should be able to get it Thurs. Or Fri.

 

[CeeCee]

I'm not giving up on him yet. As I've said before, he's messed up because of me, and I'll do what it takes to fix him.

I didn't have the money to order his prong collar yet, nut I should be able to get it Thurs. Or Fri.

You don't need one of heavy duty collars - just a medium weight one, fit properly is fine. (Medium weight is what I use with Zeek.)

Again, Kudos

 

[Penelope's Mom]

Well...today's walk was bad, but I don't entirely blame Franklin for that.
We had just made it to the end of our street. There were no people out, everything was going well. We were about to turn around to complete our lap when this fool runs (literally runs) out his front door yelling at me. I don't need to tell you how Franklin reacted to that. He went crazy. Turns out, the reason he was trying to get my attention was to ask me what kind of dog I have and if I would be willing to wait until he brought out his pit bull to see how he would react to a bigger dog. The whole time I was struggling with Franklin, the guy just stood there smiling. I think, and I may be wrong, but I think the guy was hoping my Franklin would attack, or maybe that his dog would attack Franklin. I hate people. I think I'm going to wait until I get him a prong collar before we head out again. Then we will start from scratch and see where we are.