LUNGING on walks

[babyjoemurphy]

I wish I could walk Murphy alone. He is way to powerful. Maybe once we have him longer, but the trainer has said for me not to walk him alone. Just seems that every time Murphy does anything it is my fault lol. I figure instead of Murphy having bad walks all the time I am better to get out of the picture and let hubby walk him alone. I will ask our trainer to come spend time with just Murphy and me. I suggested a muzzle so it would make me feel better when we walk and it was shot down. I don't think Murphy would bite anyone but I am sure it would make me feel better that the poor people feel better. The gasps that come out of people make me feel uncomfortable. I've suggested the treat method but it was shot down as well. So I am out of the loop for now.
I don't think I am doing anything wrong but too bull headed people walking one dog isn't a good idea lol

 

[ruthcatrin]

Trust me I don't need this thread going sour. After our horrible walk last night I have given up. Murphy wasn't bad just a lunge at a car and a person on a bike. It was the hubby and I. I am no longer double lead walking with him. I will pay the extra for the trainer to come walk with me.

Sorry.

I gotta admit the double lead wouldn't be something I could manage either. And my husband and I also have very different ideas of how to manage the dogs on lead too. We've had 'discussions' over it.

Getting the trainer to walk with you if you can sounds like a good idea, it'll give him a direct view of triggers, and maybe a better feel for things that'll work for you for managing it. Based on what you've said here there HAS been progress, if only in your ability to recognize what was happening, which is a huge step.

---------- Post added at 06:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:24 PM ----------

Muzzle and treats shot down by your husband or the trainer? Honestly if the muzzle will make you more comfortable, and the trainer agrees, you can always tell your husband he doesn't have to use it. We reached that accomadation over the prong here. Husband almost never uses it, I almost always use it.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Muzzle and treats shot down by your husband or the trainer? Honestly if the muzzle will make you more comfortable, and the trainer agrees, you can always tell your husband he doesn't have to use it. We reached that accomadation over the prong here. Husband almost never uses it, I almost always use it.

 

[babyjoemurphy]

shot down by Husband. No need to be sorry we all have our ideas. I feel I have the triggers down pat, I think my husband is too slow on the correction. He thinks I have them wrong by not giving Murphy time to assess the situation. I don't want him to assess. I am good with him looking at people but not staring, that's when he ZONES us out.
A muzzle would make me feel better, and I would never use one with out our trainer working with me on it.
I am glad to hear that others have the some kinda issue we are having with training. We just feed off each others stress and Murphy ends up paying for it. So its not good. Sounds good on paper and maybe it works for some but not here

 

[Jadotha]

I'm afraid it is a very common issue between couples, and once you begin to add other adult relatives into the mix, it can get to be another 'fine kettle of fish'. Right now, in fact, my husband and I are disagreeing on leash training for our 5 mth EM who as of yet has no issues. He thinks constant pulling and restraining by physical force is the way to go; I use tugs, commands "Come" 'heal' 'sit' -- so that he walks beside me on a loose lead -- with tons of praise and treats. With our 'dangerous' Great Dane, my hubby was totally opposed to a muzzle -- as he had preconceived notions that it was a cruel, uncomfortable midieval torture device. When I bought one anyway, and when he saw it in use on our dog -- after I had properly desensitised him to it -- he gave up his objections. Don't know if that would work for yours......?

 

[ruthcatrin]

You might also have a discussion with the trainer about the differing POV's you and your husband have. I know it probly feels like you're airing your dirty laundry, but for Murphy's sake I think you probly need to be on the same page to make it work, whatever that "same page" might be.

 

[babyjoemurphy]

POV??? Murphy always has a loose lead while walking which is awesome, stays beside us as well. Once in awhile he will get ahead but it isn't something he is doing on purpose. As soon as Murphy realizes he is pulling ahead he corrects himself before we have too. Its as soon as he sees a "trigger" and he doesn't even pull until the "lunge". It literally comes out of no where. As soon as I see him notice something I correct him with a tug, my husband will wait to see if he reacts {which the trainer said is wrong). We have to establish before we can allow for him to decide. So here we are. I think I am going to get a muzzle anyways. I want to also try a different collar with him. I am not comfortable with a choker because of how hard he lunges, my husband is great with it.
Murphy isn't going to miss out on his walks, just wont have me included. I think that will turn out bad because Murphy and I will not establish a connection while walking. The reason we were told to double lead walk was for my benefit. But not working with the hubby. I need someone else to go with me. Other then the lunges Murphy is a fantastic walker

 

[Jadotha]

POV = Point Of View.

Also, to make sure I'm clear about my post , I wasn't suggesting Murphy was pulling, or not acting like a well trained gentleman (except for the lunging). I just wanted to illustrate how husband/wife handling of situations does often casue a bit of friction. I personally think you will feela a lot less stressed and comfortable with a muzzle, and with a collar you are not worried about.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Maybe you need to have the trainer go walking with your husband.....otherwise what Jadotha said.

 

[babyjoemurphy]

I understood what you were saying Jadotha. I just want it to be understood in case someone starts reading the thread half way through. Hubby did go for a walk with trainer but I think he forgot what was practised. If I had a muzzle I would attempt to walk him by myself with someone for back up. God forbid if something happened to someone or Murphy. Its not only things people wear with wheels, its cars too.
Im thinking of maybe setting walking rules. Nothing about training to be discussed while on the walk. After we are home fine. I truly enjoy bringing my big goofy boy out.

 

[ruthcatrin]

There was a link around here (in Musicdeb's thread I think) about where to order a good muzzle for a mastiff. I'd put one on Apollo in a heartbeat if it made me more comfortable walking him out in public (not my issue thankfully, now if I can just get him to stop jumping to say hello...). And walk rules may be a good idea too!

 

[musicdeb]

There was a link around here (in Musicdeb's thread I think) about where to order a good muzzle for a mastiff. I'd put one on Apollo in a heartbeat if it made me more comfortable walking him out in public (not my issue thankfully, now if I can just get him to stop jumping to say hello...). And walk rules may be a good idea too!

Here's the link where I ordered Titan's custom made muzzle for about $40. http://www.all-about-mastiff-dog-breed.com/

 

[Jadotha]

@ Babyjoe

kk, got it! Good idea! Just wanted to make sure

@ Musicdeb -- great, I remembered your having posted something and was trying to find it for Babyjoe, too

 

[babyjoemurphy]

That's funny, I remembered seeing something about muzzle from musicdeb. I was going to go find it
I think walk rules will be a good idea, not saying its going to work but worth a try

 

[Marrowshard]

Hubby and I have frequently disagreed over training with Oscar, but he's come around a little bit to the idea that I do my homework first. If I say the trainer told me this and I looked it up and priced it out and here's what the deal is, then he's usually okay with it. He wasn't hot on the idea of the e-collar at first since, of course, most people hear "shock collar" instead and think it'll lay a dog out at the push of a button. I had to do a lot of (digital) legwork but I find things like that go down easier if I can present the facts instead of just "the trainer said so-and-so so I bought one" or "I read it on the internet and I'm going to try it".
I think there's a lot of negative connotations associated with muzzles i.e. only used on slavering maniac dogs or on fighters pre-ring. A custom-fit basket muzzle is a far cry from the saddle-leather "head-cages" that don't allow for eating/drinking. We had looked at adopting a Greyhound for a while and I got a good explanation of the different kinds of muzzles and why they might be used. I don't use one personally, but it can definitely be an uphill battle trying to explain to someone else why a prong/e-collar/muzzle/whatever can be a vital tool in the right circumstances. That being said, using a muzzle shouldn't be a substitute for learning good manners. I don't think that's what you're doing at all, but it might be what your husband is thinking.


~Marrow

 

[babyjoemurphy]

I have no problem with trying things. We just watched a dogwhisper episode that actually had the people using a muzzle and using treats. Lets see if it jogs something loose lol. The muzzle was used for an owner that couldn't relax because her MASTIFF lunged at other dogs on walks. Murphy doesn't lunge at other dogs but the idea is no different if its a person or a dog right???

 

[musicdeb]

IMO, it sounds like Murphy is stressed along with you when you walk him. I know I've said this in previous posts, but you need to relax when you're walking him and be patient and give Murphy time to trust you. Murphy is feeding off of your stress. He probably walks better with your husband because your husband doesn't stress.

Believe me, I know how you feel. I felt the same way when I first got Titan and he would pull and lunge at everything. I would stress out thinking he was going to hurt someone or some dog. Titan was feeding off of my stress. Titan and I have come a long way but we still have some more to go.

Hang in there...you and Murphy will work it out. Patience and consistency.

 

[bahamamarg]

That's the exact muzzle we ordered for Dex and have now been waiting 5 weeks for it! In all fairness, the zip code was wrong on the order and it got returned. I'm not sure how I will feel either when it actually comes as I'm sure that Dex will hate it. I'm also sure that I stress more than hubby too - I tend to always "pre-conjur" up problems before they arise which by all accounts is then passed on to him. We too disagree on methods and tools - good to know we are not alone.
Babyjoe - don't give up!!! I can't imagine not walking Dex - I too am the main provider of care and already miss long walks with him since we've restricted ourselves to not walking any further from our property than we can get back too without encountering anyone else to avoid the trigger. Everyone advises us to calm down and not stress - but seriously - HOW do you do that?

 

[Glasgowdogtrainer]

Practice calm behaviour yourself. Visualise a good outcome. Practice in a place where you have control over him. It seems that it's the pavement/sidewalk which you are having issues with. If you can, go to a business district in the evening where the offices are closed. Work in the car park a good space away from the street. Have a friend walk past on the street who Murphy doesn't know. Work on keeping him under control at the far distance which is as close to the problem scenario you are having as you can manage. Practice at this range and then try to reduce the distance. This will give you confidence that you can do it, and practice for both you and Murphy at being calm and well behaved respectively.

When the muzzle comes, do a loads of classical conditioning around it with food before you put it on. You want him thinking the muzzle is a good thing and not a bad thing.

Just try to set up training sessions so you have a successful outcome. If it hasn't been successful, ask why. Has the other person been too close etc? Videoing your sessions is a good idea so you can watch your actions, distance, timing etc.

Good luck

John

 

[musicdeb]

I put Titan's muzzle in his crate and he slept beside it for about 4-5 days. I then would put it on him in the apartment and he wore it for about 10 minutes. By the time he wore it outside, he was accepting of the muzzle.