Mastiffs of Middle Earth: North Texas

[DetroitRodeo]

Hi all, anyone have any experience with this breeder? Everything seems great (I met the dogs and the breeder), but wanted to see if others may have had any feedback. Can't seem to find any reviews at all. Thanks!!!


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[Smokeycat]

No experience but they do have some inconsistencies on their website that raise some questions for me that I would want answered before I felt comfortable with them.

 

[DetroitRodeo]

Thanks for the response. Could ya share what you're seeing...so I can dig into it. Planned on getting our first EM pup from these guys.


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[Smokeycat]

On one page they say they have 1-2 litters a year but on another it says they have 1 on the ground and 3 bred. One of those litters is by a female that they said they were going to spay rather than breed. They may have good answers but it does raise questions for me.

 

[Sadies Mom]

I would want to know what health testing has been done and the results. The inconsistencies on the web site as far as the breeding does not bother me that much. One litter on the ground and two unconfirmed breedings, one of thire own dogs and one with a friend. Again, I would like to know the health testing done and the results. They say the pupps come with a two year health guarantee....what do they guarantee? Over all, they look good, but I would ask questions and see if you can come and visit the parents. Just my two cents

 

[DetroitRodeo]

Thanks guys, here is what I gathered on our first visit about two weeks ago.....
MIA's current litter was not planned. Apparently the granddaughter (she's a kid) let her out of the separated area without anyone knowing and by the time they saw the male and pushed him off, the deed had already been done. She was going to spay Mia because she wasn't happy being a mother. Not that she didn't take care of the pups but just seemed to mope around. She is getting her spayed after this litter is gone. One litter was planned for her, and the other little was a joint litter with another breeder. She had no reservation answering any questions at all.

As far as health testing I checked on the offa site and all three dogs are listed and from my inexperienced eyes they all look normal. She also mentioned she does heart testing and something else I couldn't pronounce. I spent about an hour on the phone with her prior to visiting and then another two hours at her house with the dogs. She seemed knowledgable and enjoyed talking about them and sharing information. She wasn't pushy about what pup to pick (which we couldn't pick anyway, she wanted us to come back at six weeks to pick because she mentioned personalities would be easier to match at that time and then come back again at eight weeks to take home). She asked us questions about our life style and said she's be more than happy to suggest a pup or two based on our needs once we go back.

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to share in case there are any other north Texas folks looking for a breeder.


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[DennasMom]

I love the look of the dogs they have on the website. All the expressions look very happy and content. That they spent so much time communicating with you tells me they love what they do, too.

I'd love to have one of those puppies!!!

If you're still on the fence, you might ask if there's an owner of one of the puppies from a year or two ago that you can talk to (I see their testimonials page is empty)... just to followup that the communication doesn't end when the puppy is paid for.

 

[ruthcatrin]

I checked the OFA site, the only listing for the three dogs is for PRA (Progressive Retinal Atrophy). I'm glad to hear she's doing heart testing too, but did she do hips and elbows? Hips could be done via Pennhip, but elbows would be via OFA too, and I don't see them, for that matter, why aren't the heart testing listed on the OFA site?

My other question, I get that one of the litters is an accident, and accidents do happen, but they're breeding Strider ALOT, AND, they state HERE that some of the litters are repeats? That means he was likely bred at least twice before he was 2yrs of age? Repeat litters aren't really the best sign of a great breeder, and the fact that he got breed more than once before he was two.....That bugs me. ALOT......And (frankly) what does Strider have thats so special to breed him that much? I get she says he's gentle and loyal, but there's no stacked photos for me to look at, and it doesn't look like they show or work the dogs at all, so what is he bringing to the breed? There's more to a dog than temperment, physical structure and ability DO count.

Now none of that says that they can't produce a wonderfull pet puppy for you, but they ARE questions that I'd want an answer to before I'd consider spending the money on a pup.

 

[WalnutCrest]

A couple of quick observations:

There is NO way Strider is 240lbs in these pictures (unless he's like 36+ inches tall). If he's really 240lbs, then get some current pictures up ... or ... be truthful about his weight (or disclose that he's abnormally/unusually tall). Also, there's no pedigree posted ... who knows anything about the dogs behind this dog ... a huge pet peeve and red flag. This dog has very limited amounts of breed type. A nice pet quality dog should not be siring any litters, much less three! UGH!! Oh, I've also never heard of his breeder.

Gracie ... looks a cute pup ... referencing Rockport and Lionhearted pedigree, but not actually posting the pedigree is a continuation of the pet peeve and red flag. I've never heard of her breeder.

Halo ... seems to lack breed type (long muzzle, shallow chest, fine bone, etc.). I've never heard of her breeder.

Mia ... seems to have the most breed type of all their dogs ... never heard of her breeder ... and without a pedigree, who knows what "fantastic lines" are behind these dogs ... nor, how far back these "fantastic lines" actually are.

Available puppies ... there have been lots of tears shed over non-refundable deposits. Caveat emptor. Further, the pups look cute ... but so do all pups ... so, there's absolutely nothing remarkable about these pups (at least in terms of "bettering the breed," which is supposed to be the marching orders of every breeder).

Upcoming Litters ... if Strider is "by far the best dog I've ever seen" then whomever wrote this website needs to get out more. He's a nice pet, but shouldn't be bred (based on the pictures posted).

***********

While this breeder may be a nice person, it doesn't appear they have any idea what constitutes Mastiff breed type nor what it means to be an ethical breeder (i.e., only breeding for the betterment of the breed).

 

[DetroitRodeo]

I selected them because of the look actually. Striders build and head is what I was looking for. No he is definitely not 240, they are expecting him to land around there once he fills out. You both bring up great points, I'm going to dig into the health testing more. As for the show stuff, I'm not all into that personally, breed standards have ruined some fine working dogs (but that is a whole mother argument right lol).

You all are making me second guess this decision and that is a good thing. Hard questions need to be answered especially around the health and pedigrees. I'll see if I can get more of that information. From first glance and two hours of playing with the dogs I felt confidant...not anymore lol.


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[ruthcatrin]

Show standards have their problems, I'll totally agree. But they also have a point. As does working ability. I'd totally accecpt proof of working ability in place of conformation showing. But there should be more to the reason behind breeding than just a sweet temp. Sweet temp's awesome, but if physically he's not put together well (which is more than just taking home ribbons) he's going to cost a fortune in medical bills, or end up being put down early, or so on. And at least if they showed they'd be putting up stacked photos for us to look at and give you a better idea as to how he's put together than just a lovely head.

 

[ruthcatrin]

I have to add, there are often breeders, for many breeds, who are attempting to breed less drastic versions of their breeds. And yes they generally only rarely show, if at all. But they DO usually look to working titles instead (that being the point to the less drastic type dog), AND they present totally differently from this breeder.

 

[DetroitRodeo]

Ruth you're dead on. I agree with you 100%. I'm glad you all have been honest and upfront. I've got some answers to get in the morning from the breeder. I'll post back what I hear!


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[WalnutCrest]

To the OP ... the breeder you're looking at doesn't give any indication they do anything with their dogs that would make them "working dogs" (other than they breed them quite frequently, which, I guess, is its own form of work ... but, probably not what most people envision when they discuss "working dogs").

I have no idea what they're asking for their pups ... say its $1000 ... in my very strong opinion, you can get a much higher quality mastiff from a reputable breeder who is close to you for $2000 and save yourself quite a nice penny in vet bills ... PLUS ... you'd have the benefit of owning a dog that actually looks like the breed you're buying.

PS --- Since you're going to have a pet dog (and not a show or breeding dog), be forewarned that you shouldn't desex these giant breed dogs until they're 2yrs old. Many vets (and some uninformed breeders) will want you to desex them at 6 months (or sometimes even younger). Don't do it, for the long-term health of your future pup ... don't do it.

 

[Sadies Mom]

You have a lot of great info here. To make a long story short.......When I had my heart set on an English Mastiff, I did not do much research on health testing, pedigree etc. I just wanted an EM, and I wanted it NOW!! We had just lost our Lab and the house was too quiet and I could not see my self NOT having a dog in my life. So I came across the litter that Sadie was from (from a BYB on Craigslist) and I set up a meeting with the breeder to come and look at the parents, and the pups, but mainly the parents. They were very sweet and protective at the same time. They wanted $1000.00 for the pups and fast forward almost two years and I have spent over $5000.00 in vet bills so far. Now, the health problems that Sadie has is probably not something that would be normally tested for, but, try to get the pedigree and the tests done on ALL the dogs, grand parents, great grandparents etc. Knowing what I know now, I would have asked a lot more questions, but I would not change anything. I love my Sadie, she is so special to me. I am glad you are asking questions and doing research. Let us know what you find!! Good luck

 

[DetroitRodeo]

Walnut, thanks for all the feedback. I appreciate you and everyone else being so upfront. I've got an email out to the breeder now asking for the pedigrees and the health tests on the hips and elbows. We did put a deposit down unfortunately, so if something doesn't look right I guess we'll just have to count it as a "stupid tax" and move on. So glad I found you all when I did, I'd hate to run into getting a dog that just has constant problems. On top of that I'd hate to support a breeder who would breed such dogs. I'll keep you posted once I get the responses back!


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[dpenning]

Is this breeder in Gunter? Website didn't give a location that I could tell.

 

[DetroitRodeo]

They are in Cooper, TX


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[dpenning]

Not the one I visited. Before I got Daisy I visited with a breeder in Gunter that had a dog named mia. Didn't remember their name. Hope you get good answers and get your pup!

 

[WalnutCrest]

Another thing ...

Just because a dog has been tested isn't a guarantee against future problems ... genetics are weird things and accidents/injuries do happen.