Please help. Issue needs to be dealt with now

[Misfit36]

Thanks guys. What do you mean by muzzle train? Ive never heard of this. Also, how could we correct her if she doesnt have a leash on ? Should we keep her on one all the time outside?

 

[musicdeb]

Yes, I would recommend on leash while outside and inside the house, if people in the house other than you and family.

Muzzle train, is to train them to wear the muzzle which can take a few times of wearing it in the house. Titan has to wear a muzzle at the vet because of the other dogs and he doesn't care of men he doesn't know, the vet is a man.

 

[musicdeb]

Sorry, fragmented thought. She should wear the muzzle while outside with other people around her until she passes this stage.

 

[Bailey's Mom]

I agree with Deb and CeeCee, this dog needs patience and a continuity of training. And no mastiff will react well to being snuck up on whether tired or not.
I believe you are in a rush, a real rush to perfect your dog. You admit, you get worked up...she feeds off your energy which isn't good...You don't care if it's a phase...and that she'll grow out of it...that she's a puppy...It's not going to fix it today. Do you hear the lack of respect that you have for the process, the natural phases that these animals go through. You're ready to nuke her till she glows.
Tell you what, put the shock collar on yourself and experiment with all the shock levels on yourself...get the wife to do it to, and when you both have a clear understanding of the the pain you are willing to inflict, then decide what's best for your situation. I'm not "flaming you", I'm trying to give you perspective.
IMO you will never get a calm, confident dog that is perfect, using negative and pain driven techniques. You might get an animal that will lash out at you, and whose fault will that be? It's all in what you are willing to invest: time, training, affection and understanding.
Stella is a three dimensional creature, she has needs not just wants. Wants can wait, needs can't. And, by the way, the old adage applies, "You get more with a carrot than a stick." Dogs respond to praise, food and respect/love.
PS. I still thank you for doing the toughest job in the world. In my book you are still a hero. Be a hero to your dog. Take your time, you are creating a masterpiece.

 

[jessy1025]

As the mom the Stella and wife of Misfit all I can say is that there is only so much you can take when a 65lb animal is lunging at you with mouth open.... we are not in a RUSH to PERFECT our dog, instead we are acutely aware that she has issues that we need to correct NOW before she is set in her ways. If you were knowledgable of the techniques and benefits of a shock collar you would understand that this tool is not to "nuke her till she glows" but instead give her a signal to know when her behavior is unacceptable while off leash. We love our Stella to the moon and back and are only looking out for her best interest and the safety and comfort of those who meet her.

Thanks to anyone with constructive criticism and insight. It's nice to know we are not alone in this. No thanks to those who judge.

 

[CorsoCorso]

I think many of us know all too well the position that Stella's mom and dad are in - and those who don't shouldn't be so quick to judge and add unnecessary stress to what is already a very stressful situation. No one expects their dog to be perfect, what people do wish for and expect eventually is that their dog will behave respectfully and not harm anyone they may come across.

It's hard to put into words how frustrating it can be trying to tame a large puppy who seems to have an "off" switch when it comes to listening. Of course training takes time, but there is also something to be said for acting swiftly once a dog has displayed a behavior such as biting.

Best of luck to Jessy & Misfit - you have many people here who are rooting for you and Stella

 

[LizB]

I can definitely see your perspective, Misfit and Jessy, and it is plain and simple fear of what might happen next. In order to mitigate future incidents, you'll need to control her environment at all times, giving you greater confidence and less anxiety, which does not translate well to Stella.

This means, leash/muzzle whenever she is outside or around strangers. This is not forever, but is just during this time where some "reprogramming" is required. I agree that a shock collar will likely have a negative effect on this dog. She must be crated or contained when you can't have eagle eyes on her, and otherwise don't give her any opportunity to fail. It will take time but you can get there.

 

[mountainfila]

When she gets into this mode of lunging and biting , what do you do to correct it? Also do you know what sets her off as dogs do not just lunge and bite for no reason, there is a reason that your just not seeing maybe. Once you know what is setting her off you can watch for those signs and correct it before it escalates into the biting and lunging. All the obedience in the world will not help with the biting, as you said her obedience goes out the window, she needs to be taught there are consequences for her actions.

 

[Misfit36]

When she is outside to play and exercise, should we have her drag her leash so we can grab it for a correction or are you saying constantly hold it ? She does not do it every day or at the same times of day. She does however do it usually during play and when we stop paying attention to her or when we are finished walking. I can usually pick up her signs and when I do a firm "ah" or no will sometimes stop it from escalating. But my wife and parents arent around her as much ti pick those up. Then sometimes after being told no she will get in the play crouch position and continue so I feel like she looks at it like a game and attention getter. When other people see her do this they become afraid of her and now that energy projects on to her. And thank you mountainfila for understanding that this is not necessarily an obedience issue. My wife and I are putting in a lot of work with Stella, we love her dearly and want the best for everyone. I can honestly say besides this behavior she is an unbelievable dog. Thanks everyone for the constructive criticism and support.

 

[musicdeb]

What you described above, Then sometimes after being told no she will get in the play crouch position and continue so I feel like she looks at it like a game and attention getter, is puppy play.

I understand Elizabeth's point and I understand your point. It can be very frustrating and time consuming to train a pup what you want them to do. It requires a TON of patience, consistency in training and LOTS of love. When you become frustrated, crate Stella and take a few minutes for you to decompress just like Stella needs to decompress.

Your pup is 9 months old which is the teenage years until about 12-14 months. They are like human teenagers. They push the limits, ignore your training and think they know everything. Keep consistent in training and 2 TONS of patience.

You will get through this. Reward the pup when she does what you want her to do. The pup needs your guidance. When telling her "no" say it in a calm, stern voice. Yelling at a mastiff creates a negative reaction.

Please re-think the shock collar because it can cause adverse reactions with a mastiff. Like I stated before, it can cause fear aggression which is a behavior you do not want to deal with.

Keep us posted on Stella's progress.

 

[mountainfila]

Sounds like she needs more exercise, walks are all good and fine but these larger athletic mastiffs need to turn and burn so to speak, they need to run to burn off energy. She sounds like she could use a flirt pole if you dont have the time to run her everyday, 10-15 mins a day of doing this in the backyard will make for a more relaxed dog.

 

[Misfit36]

Thanks musicdeb. We know it requires patience and she has taught me alot as far as that. I feel as though we have been patient with everything else but I guess because this is a dangerous behavior because shes so big and strong, its a lot more urgent to us. I did forget to mention she sometimes growls while doing this. As far as exercise goes Mountainfila, we do exercise her as much as possible but on the days Im working she is crated until dog walker gets there and until my wife gets home. I did actually make a flirt pole yesterday and she loved it. Only issue was she kept going after the rope instead of the toy at the end lol. Thanks again everyone. Well keep you posted

 

[musicdeb]

Growling from a pup can also mean play. Titan growls like he's going to kill me but he's playing. Learn your pup's body language. Usually when they mean business, they will stiffen their body and their tail, lick their lips and lock on the target.

 

[CeeCee]

When she is outside to play and exercise, should we have her drag her leash so we can grab it for a correction or are you saying constantly hold it ? She does not do it every day or at the same times of day. She does however do it usually during play and when we stop paying attention to her or when we are finished walking. I can usually pick up her signs and when I do a firm "ah" or no will sometimes stop it from escalating. But my wife and parents arent around her as much ti pick those up. Then sometimes after being told no she will get in the play crouch position and continue so I feel like she looks at it like a game and attention getter. When other people see her do this they become afraid of her and now that energy projects on to her. And thank you mountainfila for understanding that this is not necessarily an obedience issue. My wife and I are putting in a lot of work with Stella, we love her dearly and want the best for everyone. I can honestly say besides this behavior she is an unbelievable dog. Thanks everyone for the constructive criticism and support.

Yes, you can have her drag her leash. I used a 30 ft training lead with Zeek in the backyard so I could control and correct him whenever the neighbors were in their backyard. (You only need to be with 30 feet of her so you grab or step on the leash if you need to.)

 

[jessy1025]

Thank you Corso Corso!

 

[Bailey's Mom]

I apologize for my inappropriate comment about "nuke her until she glows", but I resubmit to you that such a tool is wrong and harmful. I have seen this device used to stop a dog from vocalizing, every time they shocked her, she pissed and shit herself. It was heartbreaking. They got rid of her. She was shaking and fearful. It wasn't a pretty picture. If she had been a larger dog, she might have snapped on her tormentors.
It's not a shortcut to training, it's abuse.
Deb and CeeCee have given you some good ideas. They are smart, and have lots of experience. Please listen to them, and please, please don't use a shock collar. Best wishes to both of you and to Stella.

 

[Misfit36]

Ewlizbat-I understand your looking out for our best interest. Today we had our second session with our trainer and it went amazing. We went from Stella dragging me and lunging after the trainers dog the first session to her being off leash in our front yard laying next to her. Stella stayed in a down while he worked his Mal in front of her. He had us use a slip collar which seemed to really relay the message with the corrections rather than her flat or martingale. The word "no" now means something. I get it now. Im so happy to see how smart our girl is, its us that really need the training!

 

[Misfit36]

Instagram here is a vid from today if the link works

 

[Misfit36]

And another. Instagram

 

[Bailey's Mom]

Life's great when you see your possibilities. Stella is smart and so desiring to make you happy. Perhaps you can consider trusting her out of the crate for short periods of time and if she succeeds without damage to your property (even if you confine her to one room to start) you can increase the time and eventually do away with crate while you are at work. Big bonus round for the dog.
Dogs grow into trust and responsibility, just like children. If they screw up, you modify, regroup and start again.
When we turn out the lights at night I say, "Time to go to your house, Bailey", and off she goes. Her house is a positive place. Right now I'm changing it up by leaving the crate door open. She snuck out around two am and got back up on our bed. I loved her up a bit and told her again to go back to her house. She did. It's a work in progress.
Your trainer is giving you confidence. You can do anything, your dog is very willing to learn. Good luck to you all.