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Prospective parents

gwhawk

Member
Hi

I am in love with Mastiffs. Particularly English Mastiffs, and my partner and I are looking to get our first puppy. I have previously owned a border collie who was a dream to teach (as you would expect).

My partner and I work full time, and at least one of us is home 3 days a week, with my partner home another 2 half days.

Do you think there will be any issues with us not being around enough to satisfy a Mastiff, and where do you guys keep your Mastiffs when you are at home? Inside or outside? Or do you leave the door open because nobody is going to rob you while big mama is guarding the house?

Any other comments or advice?
 

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
Welcome aboard and congrats on your new family member~ Mastiffs need to be near their family. Personally, I would not house a pup outside especially a mastiff. The pup can be outside when weather permits for as long as they want to hang out outside but not to permanently house them outside.

The following tips/suggestions are based on my experience as a dog mommy, forum member*s posts and volunteering at an animal shelter for a year.

*CRATE THE PUP

You want to crate train the pup. Make sure you have a blanket, stuffed animal (about their size) and white noise (ticking clock or ipod with soft music) so the pup can sleep. The pup is used to cuddling with siblings.

Make the crate the pup*s happy place to go to when he wants to sleep, decompress or just hang out.

*SECURE THE PUP NEAR THE FAMILY

You want to keep the pup in a room with a family member. Mastiffs need to be near their family members.

*FOOD

Find out what kind of food the shelter/rescue/breeder was feeding the pup and continue to feed it to the pup until you transition to a newer food because most shelters/rescues/breeders use the cheapest food, meaning it is not very good for the pup.

Slow transition to the new food is as follows to prevent diarrhea. If at any time during the transition, the pup has diarrhea return to previous amounts of food per feeding. If you are switching flavors made by the same manufacturer, you should not have to do a slow transition.

Amount per feeding:

Day 1-4 ¾ cup of old food and ¼ cup of new food.

Day 5-9 ½ cup of old food and ½ cup of new food.

Day 10-14 ¾ cup of new food and ¼ cup of old food

Day 15 Start 100% of new food

OR

You can feed the pup boiled meat and boiled white rice with canned/raw pumpkin (not the pie filling) usually start with 1 teaspoon or the pumpkin for young puppies and 1-2 tablespoons of pumpkin for pups older than 8-10 months for 4-5 days to reset their system. After the reset, start the new food.

Generally, mastiffs are allergic to grain and chicken found in kibble. You can check www.dogfoodadvisor.com for dog food ratings and customer feedback. Mastiff puppies should eat Large Breed adult food or All Stage food because puppy food has too much calcium which causes fast growth. Slow and steady growth for a healthy mastiff. Protein in the food is not an issue unless the pup has kidney issues.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1659&aid=652

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=459

Check out Acana Regionals, Wellness Core, Castor & Pollux Grain Free, Earthborn Holistics, Fromm*s, Innova Natures Table, Victor*s Grain Free or Taste of the Wild grain free. Chewy.com is a great place to order dog food and they offer free shipping.

You may want to check out the raw diet for your pup. Raw diet can be fed to young pups. Check out the sub forum on raw diet that has a wealth of information. It is not recommended to feed the pup kibble (one with grains) and raw food. Do your research re: raw diet and form your own opinion.

*PUP NOT EATING WHEN YOU FIRST BRING THEM HOME

They are not used to their new environment and this is a natural behavior. Take the pup to a quiet place at meal times and sit and hand feed the pup. This will help the pup to eat when they are placed in a calm atmosphere, help you to bond with the pup and help the pup establish trust with you. As they become settled, they will naturally follow your routine.

*PROTECT THE PUP FROM DISEASE

Keep the pup in your yard and place newspapers down where they will walk on the ground. Keep the pup away from dog areas unless they have had their 2nd round of shots, 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] round of shots is best so they will have some immunity to the infectious diseases, i.e. Parvo. This is very important!

*HOUSE TRAINING YOUR PUP

Keep pup on leash when you take them outside. Train them with a potty word, like “potty.” Generally, it takes a pup 20-25 minutes to do their business. When the pup goes potty, do the potty dance. The potty dance is a dance while you are singing the pup*s praises for going potty. It works!

http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/house-training-your-puppy

*SOCIALIZE, SOCIALIZE AND SOCIALIZE SOME MORE

Socialize after they*ve had at least 2 round of shots preferably 3 rounds of shots to be safe. Prior to the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] or 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] round of shots, keep the pup in your own yard. If that is not possible, bring newspapers with you for the pup to walk on. Avoid dog parks and areas with a heavy traffic of animals.

Socialization can be the human park while the pup is on leash, riding in the car, sitting at the park or shopping center/mall, etc.

Tell strangers and strangers with pups “no touch, no talk, no look” at your pup as they approach. Bring your pup to sit while they approach. Have your pup approach the strangers and allow the pup to sniff them. Have a calm, controlled meeting. This shows your pup the correct way to greet strangers and other pups.

*TRAINING YOUR PUP

Start basic commands and reward with motivational treats (fav food or fav toy). Train for about 5 minutes per day and slowly increase the training time. Teach one command at a time. Once they master one command, move onto another command.


Number one command is sit. Teach the pup to sit, by placing a treat in front of his head and move it to the back causing him to sit to get the treat. When the pup sits, tell them good sit and give them the treat.

Second command should be "focus/look" This will help you tremendously when the pup is over 100 lbs. Put the pup into sit. With a treat in your hand (let the pup smell it), put the treat up to your eyes and tell the pup to look or focus. They may only do this for about 1-2 seconds. As soon as they look at your eyes, reward them. Generally, mastiffs do not like to look anyone in the eyes for long because that means a challenge to them.

Other commands are "down/off", "leave it," "wait" (short pause), "stay" (pausing until you release), drop it and "quiet/calm".

When you are training and when the pup does not do as you ask, then tell him “no” in a calm, stern voice and redirect back to the command. The only time a stern and loud NO should be used is when they are doing something that can cause harm to themselves or others.


Praise is the most powerful tool you have and the dog WANTS to please you. Show them clearly what you want, notice and praise when they comply, and learning goes much faster and pleasant for you both.

Mastiffs can be extremely stubborn and if you get frustrated with them, they will shut down and stop listening to you. Mastiffs do not do well with yelling or hitting. Hitting can result in some unwanted mastiff behavior meaning fear aggression, which equals biting.

*LEASH TRAINING

Have the wear the leash around the house to get used to it. Once they are used to the leash around their neck, then you can start the leash training. Have lots of motivational rewards on hand while doing the training. Consistency and patience is key.

If the dog pulls, do not walk until they stop and turn to look at you, then thank them with a motivational reward and start walking again. Tell him it's ok to walk by you start walking. When you have to stop, tell him stop or wait and tell him sit. Titan knows that when we are walking and I say, "wait," he has to stop and sit and wait for me to begin walking again. Requires a lot of consistent training and patience. Do this inside the house and then move to outside.

If they nip at you because they want to play, do the same. Stop, sit and wait. Reward the dog with motivational reward when they do the commands.


*PUPPY BITING/NIPPING/AROUND CHILDREN

Puppies will chew/bite anything they can find unless you re-direct the chewing/biting. Provide frozen washcloths or small towels (make sure the cloths are big enough the pup cannot swallow them), ice cubes with treats frozen in the middle, nylabones, ropes, deer antlers, Kongs with frozen yogurt so they can chew to their heart*s desire. Some people use boxes, be aware that the pup will continue to chew all boxes.

If you puppy is biting/nipping, then try the following. This behavior can sometimes take a lot of patience and consistency in training.

They bite and growl because that is how they played with their siblings.
When they bite, tell them “OW” in a high-pitched voice and “NO” in a stern, calm voice. NEVER HIT OR YELL AT A MASTIFF. Hitting can lead to fear aggression and yelling causes the pup to shut down on you and ignore you.

When the pup stops biting, tell them to sit and re-direct to one of the chew toys.

Teach the pup “leave it” is another option. When the pup “leaves it” meaning your body part that he is biting, then bring to a sit and reward with motivational reward.

**Do not allow children and pup on the floor together. Pup will see them as playmates and nip at them. Picture the pup playing with their siblings.

Keep the pup on leash while the children are on the floor so you can have control of the pup. Pup and children should not be allowed to play alone.

Have the children hand fed the pup and help with training, i.e. teach the pup to sit, stay and come. This helps the pup to see them as non-playmates but as people in authority. These activities are great bonding exercises.

*EXERCISE

Puppies can exercise with natural movements and free play like running, stretching, playing on soft surfaces (grass and dirt). This type of exercise is actually healthy and good for their developing bodies but they do need to be able to pace themselves.

Structured exercise/play on hard surfaces and where they don't have they ability to pace themselves is where you need to be very careful. This type of exercise could harm the pup*s joints and bones. Puppies should not do any excessive exercise, i.e. walking, jumping, running and navigate stairs for the first 12 months to avoid injury.

Stairs should be maneuvered while on leash (even in the house) especially going down the stairs. Stairs should have carpet or rubber matting to give the pup traction. Mastiffs should be assisted up and down stairs until they are about age 12 months to prevent injury.

Most mastiffs can be very lazy but they still need to exercise. Generally, the amount of time to exercise is 5 minutes per each month of age.

*YOUR PUP AND HEAT (NOT THE FEMALE HEAT)

Remember, mastiffs do not tolerate heat. In the heat, reduce walk/exercise times. Have clean water available at all times. I freeze towels to either place on Titan or put on the floor for him to lie on in the summer to cool him off. Buy a kiddies* pool for the pup to play in to keep cool.

*DE-SEXING YOUR PUP

Mastiffs should not be neutered/spayed until 18 months to 2 years. NO MATTER what the vet says. Early neutering can cause growth problems and health issues. **Remember, you must be a very responsible dog owner to not neuter your pet to prevent unwanted pregnancies.**


Health Issues Linked to Spaying and Neutering Dogs


Enjoy your baby! Have lots of patience! The pup will reward you with love and loyalty!
 

gwhawk

Member
Thanks musicdeb, so would owners provide access to outside during the day so the Mastiffs can do their business or do they just wait until they are home to let them out?
 

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
That's a personal choice. Some owners have dog doors for pup to go in and out. While the pup is young, 8 weeks to 3 months, it's best to potty train them while on leash.

A young pup can hold their urine about 30 minutes to an hour for every month of age. You may have to go home for lunch or have someone take the pup out to go potty while you're at work.

As the pup gets older and has been potty trained (over 6 months), they can usually hold it and can wait until you return home to let them out to go potty.
 

K_Mondy

Well-Known Member
Hi

I am in love with Mastiffs. Particularly English Mastiffs, and my partner and I are looking to get our first puppy. I have previously owned a border collie who was a dream to teach (as you would expect).

My partner and I work full time, and at least one of us is home 3 days a week, with my partner home another 2 half days.

Do you think there will be any issues with us not being around enough to satisfy a Mastiff, and where do you guys keep your Mastiffs when you are at home? Inside or outside? Or do you leave the door open because nobody is going to rob you while big mama is guarding the house?

Any other comments or advice?

Welcome! I am also new to the forum, we just got our first mastiff puppy a couple of weeks ago :) While I'm of course nowhere near an expert, I will share with you how we've been working things. My SO and I both work full time, so we unfortunately have to keep Duke in his kennel during the day and have not been able to go home and let him out mid-day. While we recognize this is not ideal, until he is potty trained it's how it will roll! He had one accident in his kennel the very first night and hasn't had one since! We have been very fortunate, but he holds it for a WHILE when he's in his crate. You're very fortunate to have time at home during the weekdays to spend with a puppy - I wish I had that!

As for where we keep him, I actually just posed a question about this. Right now we have his kennel downstairs while we sleep upstairs. While I suppose this is ill-advised, we simply don't have the space in our living room or bedroom for such a large crate, but it has worked out just fine. He whines for maybe a minute or 2 when he crate him for the night, but we put a cozy toy and a bone in with him and he's quiet all night long. When we are home, we take him out on his leash at least every hour, if not more frequently if he's eating and drinking a lot! We don't have the luxury of a fenced yard until the summer, so we're just going with whatever works :)

Hopefully this helps some, good luck!
 

angelbears

Well-Known Member
An OEM is going to be a lot different than a Border Collie. Much less energy and not as intelligent. However, Mastiffs are magical. They are intuitive, loving and protective. Personally, I believe that a mastiff should be an inside dog. They want to be with their family.

I agree with Deb. Once you get them potty trained and past ~ 6 months they can hold it until you get home. I would crate train, once you get them past the destructive puppy stage I would give them run of the house.

One other thing that some people may disagree with me on is that I don't allow my big guy a lot of running and rough housing. Their ACL's tear way to easily. There is probably a thread a day on here about ligament tears. If you are looking for high energy I would reconsider getting an OEM.

Good luck!
 

Max's mom

Well-Known Member
Max is crated during the day while I am at work but I do get to come home at the 4-6 hour point for potty break and a romp in the yard. I don't let him out free all day because he steals things and eats them. He also plays very rough with the lab and someone will get hurt if I'm not there to say no more. The lab knocks down the baby gate to get upstairs and Max needs a person to make sure he is careful on stairs. Once I am home, he is not crated but has the ability to get in if he wants. I love the breed! Especially Max! Don't expect a dog who can catch well or do lot's of tricky tricks. High five is about it for us and he couldn't catch a ball if his life depended on it. I wouldn't change a thing though.
 

scorning

Well-Known Member
I have a Great Dane puppy, I got him when he was 8 weeks and took 2 weeks from home to get him acclimated and house trained. After that I sent him to puppy daycare and/or took him to work with me, until he got kennel cough almost 2 months ago. Now he stays home, in a large crate, with a dog walker that comes midday. I leave bones, a stuffed kong, and interactive toys with him. Since he seems fine with the crating, the puppy daycare was probably over board but it was great for socialization.

I would not leave your dog outside, my puppy eats everything! He pulls out plants and attacks trees/shrubs. He also has almost no fur to insulate him from heat/cold. I would also worry about him being stolen and/or nuisance barking.
 

Smokeycat

Well-Known Member
The biggest thing I have discovered between a smart dog and an OEM is the stubbornness and lack of desire to please. Kryten wants me to be happy he just wants to do it his way instead of mine. He is definitely an indoor dog but getting him to come inside when it is cold and snowy can be a bit of a challenge as he wants me to go outside with him instead.
 

gwhawk

Member
My SO and I both work full time, so we unfortunately have to keep Duke in his kennel during the day and have not been able to go home and let him out mid-day. While we recognize this is not ideal, until he is potty trained it's how it will roll! He had one accident in his kennel the very first night and hasn't had one since! We have been very fortunate, but he holds it for a WHILE when he's in his crate. You're very fortunate to have time at home during the weekdays to spend with a puppy - I wish I had that!

Hopefully this helps some, good luck!

It seems that being flexible may be the solution for us.

So does he hold on all through the day while he is in his crate?

We were thinking that maybe we could set up kitty litter for our pup in the short term until she can go outside.
 

gwhawk

Member
An OEM is going to be a lot different than a Border Collie. Much less energy and not as intelligent. However, Mastiffs are magical. They are intuitive, loving and protective. Personally, I believe that a mastiff should be an inside dog. They want to be with their family.

I agree with Deb. Once you get them potty trained and past ~ 6 months they can hold it until you get home. I would crate train, once you get them past the destructive puppy stage I would give them run of the house.

One other thing that some people may disagree with me on is that I don't allow my big guy a lot of running and rough housing. Their ACL's tear way to easily. There is probably a thread a day on here about ligament tears. If you are looking for high energy I would reconsider getting an OEM.

Good luck!
Yeh we definitely know that we are getting a very different dog to a Border Collie, and we have all intentions on our Mastiff being an inside dog. We want our dog to be completely integrated into the family.

So do you suggest keeping the puppy in a crate during the day while we are at work? Do they not get bored and restless?

I will do some research on ACLs and injuries. Based on ACLs that humans do, it is either from too strenuous exercise, or not enough exercise so the ligament doesn't know how to work properly. I would imagine somewhere in the middle will be the sweet spot, as I want to make sure my puppy has every opportunity to develop her natural muscle mass to support such

Max is crated during the day while I am at work but I do get to come home at the 4-6 hour point for potty break and a romp in the yard. I don't let him out free all day because he steals things and eats them.

How does he go all cooped up during the day? He doesn't have any accidents in there? That is impressive

I love the breed! Especially Max! Don't expect a dog who can catch well or do lot's of tricky tricks. High five is about it for us and he couldn't catch a ball if his life depended on it. I wouldn't change a thing though.

Yeh I love their dopiness, the best woofers.

I leave bones, a stuffed kong, and interactive toys with him. Since he seems fine with the crating, the puppy daycare was probably over board but it was great for socialization.

I would not leave your dog outside, my puppy eats everything! He pulls out plants and attacks trees/shrubs. He also has almost no fur to insulate him from heat/cold. I would also worry about him being stolen and/or nuisance barking.

Yeh I plan on leaving the pup inside, I just wasn't sure if they needed much access to outside during the day.

I am impressed that they are happy to stay in a crate all day with the toys and bones. I guess that makes us coming home all the sweeter.

I don't think i will be too worried about my mastiff being stolen, they would have to try and get her over the fence lol. Good luck buddy.

The biggest thing I have discovered between a smart dog and an OEM is the stubbornness and lack of desire to please. Kryten wants me to be happy he just wants to do it his way instead of mine. He is definitely an indoor dog but getting him to come inside when it is cold and snowy can be a bit of a challenge as he wants me to go outside with him instead.

I am interested in this stubbornness, will probably differ puppy to puppy, I guess we need to be more stubborn to counter it...
 

Smokeycat

Well-Known Member
You will definitely need to be more stubborn as stubbornness is a Mastiff trait. It is why they are considered a less trainable (intelligent) breed.
 

Max's mom

Well-Known Member
Max is excited to be out of the crate but he does not misbehave and I don't think he feels cooped up. He sleeps most of the day when I'm home anyway, and I do put lots of treats and toys in there with him. I forgot once, he ate his mattress!
 

gwhawk

Member
Max is excited to be out of the crate but he does not misbehave and I don't think he feels cooped up. He sleeps most of the day when I'm home anyway, and I do put lots of treats and toys in there with him. I forgot once, he ate his mattress!

HAHA classic Max

OK I am feeling a lot more comfortable about this whole leaving the pup in the crate during the day.

It will definitely save the house from being destroyed if the pup decides to turn the house into a chew toy.
 

K_Mondy

Well-Known Member
It seems that being flexible may be the solution for us.

So does he hold on all through the day while he is in his crate?

We were thinking that maybe we could set up kitty litter for our pup in the short term until she can go outside.

Yes, he manages to hold it through the day! While his crate it very large, it has a divider in it so we can keep it smaller while he's a puppy. This way, his bed fills the space with room for his toys, but not enough room for him to use the bathroom in there. he won't want to pee on his bed if he can help it. I've never tried having a "litter pan" in a kennel with a pup, but I feel like this would teach them that it's ok to use the bathroom in their kennel? But I could be wrong. Thankfully they are huge dogs and grow fast - so their bladders can hold much more than our shih tzu puppies ever could!
 

musicdeb

Well-Known Member
Depending on the age of the pup, making them hold their urine for long periods of time can result in an UTI. Young pups (generally 8-14 weeks of age) can hold their urine for about an hour or two.
 

gwhawk

Member
My thought was to put the crate in a small room like the laundry or bathroom, leave it open, and have litter tray on the other side of the room. I agree that having the tray in the crate would give a mixed signal.
 

DennasMom

Well-Known Member
Little tray... you mean a playbox full of "sand" to dig in?? :) Sounds like a recipe for a big mess to me.

You could get one of those indoor doggie lawns, if you have money and space to put one. Actually... some of them aren't too expensive anymore: Spotty Indoor Dog Potty : Target

I work from home, but do a bit of business travel. We hired a dog-walker to take care of mid-day breaks when I couldn't be here. For the first few months, Denna needed out at least every hour or two. When she was 3 months old, I left her in her crate for 2 hours... and that was too long. That was the only time she ever pee'd in her crate. Some puppies do better, and she wasn't used to being crated that long during the day, so that might have been part of it.

I don't leave my dog outside when I'm not home. Ever. Too many unknowns out there -from what she'll eat that she shouldn't, to who might wander by and tease her, make her bark, or worse - take her... or open the gate and let her loose to her own devices. A crate is a safe place for a puppy - to keep her safe from chewing things she shouldn't, and keep your stuff safe from puppy, too.

There are lots of options for dealing with SMART mastiffs. They are definitely of a different mind from border collies, but I wouldn't say they're dumb, at all! They just have a different drive and aren't all in it just to see you smile. They're in it to keep you SAFE. Sometimes, they think that means saving you from yourself. :)

These are independently minded dogs... so you do better when you convince them they WANT to do what you ask, versus expecting them to do it just because you SAID so. At least, that's how Denna rolls. If she knows what's in it for her (love, treats, a romp in the park), she decides she DOES what to do what I asked. It's really funny when I give her a command, and you can SEE her weighing her options... most of the time she does as asked... but sometimes it's 10 seconds or more later. LOL!