Raw diet. Need advise.

[Caleb]

I dont feed raw. Never have. I have always fed high quality kibble and canned food mixed, but Ive been reading a lot lately about the benefits of the raw diet, and I truly agree with what I have read. I have also read how this is cheaper.??????? Thats hard to imagine. Meat aint' cheap. How could this be? and does anyone have any example and good tips for specific raw diets? Thanks.

 

[Lehman]

Well there are many foods and which food is best for dogs. Like raw food is very better for dogs and i heard it from many people that raw food is best for dogs. And you must concentrate on raw food.

 

[Caleb]

Thanks Lehman. What do you mean, by "concentrate"?

---------- Post added at 06:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:26 AM ----------

And sorry for the typing error....it was supposed to read "raw diet, need ADVICE".

 

[Caleb]

And sorry for the typing error....it was supposed to read "raw diet, need ADVICE".

 

[PuppyPaws]

I have been feeding raw for about a year and a half and am still learning about it. I am not sure about it being cheaper. I haven't done the figuring to confirm that but... I have heard that it can be cheaper. I think they say that for several reasons.
The dogs may eat less overall as the meal is more filling. (not completely sure though)
If you are a hunter or friends with hunters, you can get a lot of great stuff from them (including the Offal-organ meat-that the hunters don't use any way)
Some of the food can be found for pretty inexpensive prices (like chicken wings and necks, fish, etc.)
There are definite benefits to it that I have found in my experience. I can elaborate on that if you want me to, but I won't for now.

I will say it takes research initially and dedication. Once you get going on it it becomes routine but it is individualized to your dog and your dog's weight and metabolism. You have to be dedicated to trying it and it takes time to do it correctly. My dogs really seem to love it.

---------- Post added 07-22-2011 at 12:03 AM ---------- Previous post was 07-21-2011 at 11:55 PM ----------


One more thing....I had previously shared the benefits that I have experienced with my dogs inanother thread. I have copied the link to it below:

http://www.mastiff-forum.com/showthread.php/2017-Proposed-Diet/page3

 

[PuppyPaws]

One more thing....I had previously shared the benefits that I have experienced with my dogs inanother thread. I have copied the link to it below:

http://www.mastiff-forum.com/showthread.php/2017-Proposed-Diet/page3

 

[Caleb]

Thanks PuppyPaws! I read your info from the other thread, and it is helpful. I am in agreement of the positive things that I have heard about it. I guess my only concern is meat handling and storage, and of course, price. It wouldnt be a problem for me to handle the meat, but i know my wife would be reluctant. I hunt quite a bit, and use my dog to hunt, and while I dress my game, i always give him certain trimmings, such as the heart, etc.

 

[Marrowshard]

Invest in a vacuum packer and pre-pack the meat portion of the meals. That way, you can easily freeze/thaw without a huge mess. Even just storing vac packs in the fridge they'll last longer than ziploc or saran-covered dishes. I've found chicken and fish to be the cheapest to buy and fish by far the easiest to work with. My husband hunts, so this year we'll be keeping the hearts, kidneys, livers, etc. to supplement whatever else we're feeding.

~Marrow

 

[Caleb]

is there anything to supplement with, other than just the meat. Ive read that grains are not processable thru a dogs digestive system. Vitamins?

 

[Marrowshard]

We've had success feeding baked sweet potato, with dried fruit pieces as treats (especially banana chips, but also strawberries). I've heard that most any veggie will make a good "filler", but leafy greens like spinach will have a heavy shot of natural vitamins (B12, iron, etc.). There are raw food purists who advocate ONLY meat and miscellaneous animal products (bones, organs, skin) and there are those who feed an omnivore diet where the meat is supplemented with veggies and/or carbs. It's sort a matter of personal preference how you want to do it, I've heard success stories from both camps. We don't supplement with vitamins or additives at this time, although with large dogs it's sometimes advisable to use glucosamine/chondroitin for joint health.

~Marrow

 

[PuppyPaws]

I don't use much in the way of filler or veggies, primarily because my Willow has such allergies. I just steer clear of any extras especially in the areas of carbs or grains. I agree with marrow it is sort of a personal preference, I think. I will occassionally feed green beans or canned Pumpkin if I see the need for some ruffage/fiber.

In what I have read/researched, i think most veggies are not really processed in the dog's digestive system - they just pass through- which is why some people say to puree the veggies so they will be more easily absorbed. That's another step that I just prefer not to get involved in at least at this time.

 

[PuppyPaws]

Caleb, I juse re-read this thread and realized I didn't respond to your comment about how to store and handle the food. I have done it several different ways. I do not have a vacuum sealer like marrow suggested, but I am sure that is probably the BEST way to handle things. I have used zip lock storage containers or ziplock baggies. I don't really make a lot of food ahead of time, I probably should, though. I have three dogs I am feeding, so it seems I just do enough for each day.

The canned fish is EASY to use. Just open drain a bit of the water and serve. It is kinda stinky but very little handling required. Chicken is chicken (same for Turkey) and not hardly any different than what one is normally used to handling for humans. Hamburger meat is also not any different. Your wife's reservations may come in more with the organ meat. For the most part, I don't mind handling gizzards, liver, and heart. Tripe is pretty smelly and I haven't tried it yet, but again I have heard it can be nasty smellying. Our local stores don't always carry it but I did notice it the other day in Wal-Mart, so I may be venturing there in the near future. Maybe you could just pre-store and organize the organ meat for awhile for your wife so all she has to do is dump it in a food bowl??? Gizzards aren't slimy and might be a good place to start for her. My dogs will take them just as a treat. Livers are slimier and less appealing as they are stored in some kinda yucky water. If you are dressing the wild animals anyway, you might be able to take the brunt of the offal work off of her. Just some thoughts.

Oh yeah. Marrow suggested the glucosomine and chondrotin. I agree. I don't supplement with much else except that. When I was feeding kibble. I also used fish oil. I think it did help with some of their coats, but now that I am feeding raw fish I have discontinued that. As I noted before, when I use fillers it usually green beans or pumpkin. Not much else. Let us know when and if you take the plunge

 

[Caleb]

Wow, lots of great info. Thanks everyone. I will soon get started and see how it goes. We actually do have a vacuum packer and I never thought to use it. We also just acquired a freezer from my wifes grandparents to go in the garage. .....as far as tripe, I love menudo, so I'm not scared of that at all, and never gave any thought as to using it in the raw diet. Thanks again.

 

[neomama]

Neo's are known for bloat, i heard to feed them raw and that will help with it,i feed my girls both kibbles and mix hambugar or chicken with it. I also feed them apple chunks and carrots, this makes there stomach work and i heard it helps prevent bloat.

 

[Marrowshard]

Another suggestion: if you've got a food dehydrator, it's extremely easy to make your own treats. We used to give Ebony raw chicken livers as treats but of course they're messy and slippery. Whipped out the food dehydrator one day and made a load of dried livers for her. They're chewy, last more or less indefinitely, and you can handle them with bare hands without making a bloody mess. Nice thing about chicken is that it's cheap to buy. Livers are especially cheap (along with most other giblets), and we get raw chicken leg quarters at WalMart for 70 cents/pound. Add garden veggies and the fact that we grow/hunt our own meat and it's really not too bad to feed raw/homemade.

~Marrow

 

[Caleb]

Wow, never expected this much feedback. Thanks. Ive got a question....how much raw meat would you feed a 140lb dog, each day?

 

[Ralo]

I have been feeding raw for about a year and a half and am still learning about it. I am not sure about it being cheaper. I haven't done the figuring to confirm that but... I have heard that it can be cheaper. I think they say that for several reasons.
The dogs may eat less overall as the meal is more filling. (not completely sure though)
If you are a hunter or friends with hunters, you can get a lot of great stuff from them (including the Offal-organ meat-that the hunters don't use any way)
Some of the food can be found for pretty inexpensive prices (like chicken wings and necks, fish, etc.)
There are definite benefits to it that I have found in my experience. I can elaborate on that if you want me to, but I won't for now.

I will say it takes research initially and dedication. Once you get going on it it becomes routine but it is individualized to your dog and your dog's weight and metabolism. You have to be dedicated to trying it and it takes time to do it correctly. My dogs really seem to love it.

---------- Post added 07-22-2011 at 12:03 AM ---------- Previous post was 07-21-2011 at 11:55 PM ----------


One more thing....I had previously shared the benefits that I have experienced with my dogs inanother thread. I have copied the link to it below:

http://www.mastiff-forum.com/showthread.php/2017-Proposed-Diet/page3

Could your dog not get something from eating organ meat or animals from the wild?

 

[Marrowshard]

Regarding the amount of food to give: I was always told to just wing it based on the dog's condition. Start with a certain amount and then tweak it depending on whether they're getting chubby or not. When we switched to homemade meals, we started out mimicing the approximate amount we had been giving in kibble. Since Ebony was about 100 lbs, we were giving 4 cups of kibble per day spread out over 2 meals (we never leave food out, opportunistic cats), so 2 cups for breakfast and 2 for dinner. When we did chicken/rice/egg, it was about 3/4 cup of cooked rice, a chicken quarter, and a whole egg for roughly 2 cups. On fish/potato it was a full can of salmon/halibut or a fistful of raw smelt and a lump of cooked potato about the size of a closed fist. That was not counting chicken liver or banana chip treats.

A concern for us with feeding Ebony was that she had a history of being overweight. We therefore tried to give her a leaner diet. We also started varying the meal size to give her a larger feeding in the morning and a smaller meal in the evening. With my husband's and my varying schedules, the animals often got the evening meal pretty late at night and we didn't want to give Ebony a huge supper just to put her to bed shortly afterward. As PuppyPaws said, it's individualized to your dog's metabolism and personal tastes. Ebony is an older girl and a couch potato by habit, so she doesn't need as much for a maintenance diet. A more active dog or one that need a little showring padding will obviously take more raw material.

~Marrow

 

[PuppyPaws]

CAUTION: This is a LONG Post I will apologize ahead of time...I'm Sorry!

Ralo, that is a common question that I think a lot of people wonder about. In short, a dog's digestive system is different than a human's digestive track. In the wild, wolves never had an opportunity eat cooked food or food "sanitized" in other way. It was eat raw when you get it. There are some things that one would need to be aware of in the way of contamination, etc. Such as Salmon obtained from the pacific northwest is a little risker due to the possibility of rickettsia. Then there is raw pork which could contain trichinosis. It is usually recommended that you freeze pork for 3 weeks at zero degrees to kill the flukes that cause trichinosis. I usually do that just for my peace of mind when I feed pork to my crew.

I also wanted to share some info. for Caleb and anyone else that is considering taking the plunge. I am also a member of another forum. Here is a compilation of links that I found through that group on raw feeding. I found it helpful in doing some of my own research and learning about feeding a natural diet. I have looked at some but not all of these links, but thought I would post for those of you interested in doing a little more research on the subject. You will notice that some of these links reference and support the use of veggies and some don't. It is a choice you have to make. I have also seen a link somewhere (maybe it's below??) on what to feed for your dog's particular weight. I will see if I can locate it for you. The main thing as Marrow said is being observant and adding and/or cutting back when you see the weight piling on or slacking off of your own dog. I will see if I can find the link, though. Please forgive the length of this post. I just thought it might be helpful. Again, I haven't read ALL of the info. below. Feeding Raw is a personal decision and committment and I am by no means an expert. Just someone who has done it and seen some great benefits from it with my personal dogs. Good Luck!!

Natural Rearing
http://www.naturalrearing.com

Raw Dog Ranch
http://www.rawdogranch.com/rawdiet

Raw Fed Dogs
http://www.rawfeddogs.net

Raw Fed Myths
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

Tom Lonsdales Site - Raw Meaty Bones
http://www.rawmeatybones.com

Bluegrace - Raw
http://www.bluegrace.com/rawpwd.html

SkyLarzack Raw Feeding Info
http://www.skylarzac.../rawfeeding.htm

Feed Raw
http://www.geocities...ome/feedraw.htm

K9 Joy
http://k9joy.com/edu...feedyourdog.php

Nutrition
http://home.earthlin.../nutrition.html

Dog Aware
http://www.dogaware....dogfeeding.html

50 FAQ's
http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm

Diamond Paws
http://www.diamondpa...lth/barfveg.htm

The BARF Diet
http://bestfrisbeedogs.com/diets.html

BARFWorld
http://www.barfworld.com

Dr. Ian Billinghurst
http://www.drianbillinghurst.com

Natural Diet - Don't "Just Do It"
http://www.caberfeid...NaturalDiet.htm

Newcastle Boxers Raw Diet
http://www.newcastle....com/diet.shtml

Raw Boxers
http://www.rawboxers.com

Raw Dog Food
http://www.raw-dogs.com/default.htm


Other Helpful Links
http://www.canadasgu...rition_food.htm

Diets for dogs with Cancer:
http://b-naturals.com/Jun2004.php


YAHOO RAW FEEDING SUPPORT GROUPS:
http://groups.yahoo....roup/rawissues/
http://pets.groups.y...group/BasicRaw/
http://pets.groups.y...oup/rawfeeding/
http://pets.groups.y...m/group/RawPup/
http://pets.groups.y...eFeed-Supplier/


Books:
Dr. Pitcairn?s Complete Guide to Natural Health
http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=...=45174&Method=3

Give Your Dog a Bone
http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=...=45174&Method=3

Raw Meaty Bones
http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=...=45174&Method=3

Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats
http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=...=45174&Method=3

Prepared Raw Foods
Aunt Jeni's Homemade4Life - http://www.auntjeni.com/homemade.htm
Bravo! Raw Diet - http://www.bravorawdiet.com
BARFWorld BARF Diet - http://www.barfworld.../barfdiet.shtml
Grandad's Pet Foods - http://www.grandadspetfoods.com/
Halshan - http://www.halshan.com/
Hare Today, Gone Tomorrow - http://www.hare-today.com/
mOrigins - http://d21c.com/budd...S/mORIGINS.html
Mountain Dog Food (Canada) - http://www.mountaindogfood.com/
NuDimensions - http://www.nudimensionsnutrition.com
Oma's Pride - http://www.omaspride.com/
A Place for Paws - http://www.aplaceforpaws.com
Raw4Dogs - http://www.raw4dogs.com
Steve's Real Food - http://www.stevesrealfood.com
Taylor Pond Farms - http://www.taylorpondfarms.com/
Urban Carnivore (Canada) - http://www.urbancarnivore.com/

 

[Caleb]

Thanks for the links. I will look thru them. As far as dogs getting something from the meat...I have a little experience there...When my I lived in the country, i would dress game and then drag the carcasses off to my "bone yard", which was about 150yds from the house. Lu would eat from my trimmings when I would dress, and would always be dragging up pieces of the carcasses up into the yard and gnaw on them for a week or so. We never got any illnesses, worms, etc, so yes, a dog's system is pretty tough. On the other extreme, my inlaws have a schnorky, who cant eat meat, or most kibble without having a bad reaction.