Raw diet question.....looking for opinions!

[mcleodcon]

Hi All, I am new here and have a 5 1/2 month old oem. I have recently (about 10 days ago) switched her over to a raw diet and have done fish and beef. My main reason is I am pretty sure she is allergic to chicken but i am too scared to test it out but at the same time want to test it out. When she was eating kibble she was eating royal canin giant breed puppy chow but I had to change that within the first week of having her because she was pooping blood and mucus and that was all. When I told my vet she switched me to another food and I incorporated it into a lamb and rice one she was eating. Instantly pooped blood, guess what it had chicken in. However they both also had corn and now I don't know which one it was. Is it worth it to try her on raw chicken? that is my big question! Sorry I just dont want to hurt her. Any advice would be wonderful! Btw, I am from Canada and would love to have your prices on meat!!! SO JEALOUS!

 

[ruthcatrin]

Its entirely possible that she's allergic to chicken in processed kibble form but not raw form.

But I'm a little concerned that you're already on two proteins 10 days in and one of them's beef. What are you using for bone content? What formula are you following?

 

[musicdeb]

What did the vet say was causing the blood in the poop?

Ditto to Ruth's questions.

 

[mcleodcon]

The vet didn't know what was causing the blood. They tested for worms and all of that but as soon as I took her off the chicken based kibble on to something else, the blood stopped. I have switched her to raw diet because every kibble I gave her seemed to give her runny poop. I have given her fish because when I started that was all that I had and it was whole fish so she got the bones in the fish. I gave that to her for 5 days and she was fine. She had normal poops and was actually interested in eating. I then switched to beed after the 5th day and she has been on that since and she has been fine with that as well. The first time she got beef though she had a really bad poop but after that was fine. As for the bone with the beef that was a bit harder but i gave her a couple bones to chew on because I bought a ground beef meat with organs already mixed in so I have to find another source of beef because I know how important bone content is. I have read it is fine to switch them after that long is that not true?

 

[musicdeb]

Most pups are allergic to chicken in kibble but not raw chicken. Try a chicken leg and see how she does with it. It's best to start organ meats after 2-3 weeks of raw diet. Organ meats are very rich and they can cause diarrhea.

Yes, it's ok to switch meat after 5 days of a particular meat.

Sounds like she needs more raw bone in her diet. I'm surprised she doesn't have runny poop.

What raw diet model are you following?

Are you feeding her 2-3% of her expected weight? Feeding 80% meat, 10% meaty bone and 10% organ meats?

 

[mcleodcon]

Can you give me a model of a week of what you feed your dog? I know she needs more raw bone in her diet and i am working on getting that. I am trying to learn as much as I can about doing this and am just learning, as I am sure you are aware it probably took you some time to balance things out and learn what is needed and when. I was cutting liver the other day as I had a friend give me some and dropped some on the floor by accident, she got to it before I did and ate it up. It wasn't much maybe an ounce and a half but she didn't have any problems. I have since given her more in 4 oz servings along with the meat she has been having and she didn't have any problems with that either. I am actually doing 80% raw meat (getting more meat with bone in today) 10% veg mix and 10% organ meat. She seem to be fine poop wise with this but I think I have to up how much I am giving her lol!

 

[musicdeb]

Titan eats the following during the week, he's feed 2-2 1/2 lbs per day and he usually eats twice a day. In summer, he eats once a day. I'm hoping to keep him at once a day.

I used to feed Titan chicken but I noticed his skin starting acting up so I stopped chicken. I've started to reintroduce it to see how his skin reacts. He's always eaten chicken feet with no problems. I know, I don't get it either.

Pork ribs. I cut them into single/double pieces. More than that and Titan will not eat them. I bought 12 lbs of ribs the other day at Kroger because they were .99 a lb.
Ground hamburger
Ground pork
Pork chops with bones
Pork steaks with bones
Chuck steak
Chicken drumsticks
Chicken breasts
Chicken feet
Chicken livers
Beef Liver
Fish once a week usually cod or salmon
Eggs
Plain Yogurt
Probiotic in each meal
Occasional broccoli or green beans

Hope that helps. You're lucky your pup did not have the runny poop with introducing organ meat so early. Titan had cannon butt.

 

[DennasMom]

Here's one of our menus:

Weekly totals in pounds are in yellow, daily meals (in ounces) are in the green.
This is just my engineering of the meals... it doesn't always happen EXACTLY this way.

We do an adjusted PMR (Prey Model Raw) - 82% boneless meat / 8% bone (in meaty pieces) / 5% liver (vitamin pill #1) / 5% other organ (vitamin pill #2)
(we do less bone... Denna's poops get really, really hard on 10% bone)
Each meal isn't balanced, but I do try and keep to the 82/8/5/5 balance each week.

One of the big things is how to do bone... so I found a list of bone content in meats. We use lots of ribs (pork, lamb and emu) since we don't do chicken. Here's the list:

Chicken:
backs	50%
necks	40%
breast	20%
wings	50%
leg quarter	27%
whole	25%
cornish hen	40%
Beef
Ribs	35%
Lamb:
Shoulder	25%
whole leg	15%
Rib	29%
Pork:
Feet	30%
Tail	30%
Shoulder	16%
Butt	10%
Neck	35%
Ribs	30%
Tail	30%
Rabbit
whole (w/fur)	10%
whole (dressed)	25%
Turkey
Back	40%
Breast	10%
Thigh	15%
Wing	33%
Neck	42%
Whole	21%

 

[DennasMom]

Also... I'd try chicken again after the puppy is cruising along really well on the raw diet, and you're sure everything else is out of the system that might be a bother.

If it's really as bad as you suggest (causing blood in poop) - sounds like you'll know pretty quick.

I didn't know an allergy could cause blood in stool... that seems extreme, to me. But, well, I'm certainly well aware of the fact that I don't know everything!

 

[2nd Chance]

i have cealiacs, if i eat wheat, i'll poo blood.
dogs allergies will have similar effects. So not suprised as mucus/blood stools.

 

[NYDDB]

musicdeb-- what exactly happens to Titan's skin when he eats chicken? I'm asking because it seems Mateo gets skin issues now and again, but seem to really show itself during the summer (small bumps that sometimes scab over, then go away.) Last summer it was the same.

But I am wondering if it's something I am feeding that is causing it. I use chicken mostly for the bone ratio...

 

[mcleodcon]

Thanks musicdeb and dennasmom that is really helpful. I have been wondering about bone content. So you would feed ground meat and boned meat together?

 

[musicdeb]

Yes, I feed ground meat and boned meat together. For example, I feed ground beef with pork chops.

 

[musicdeb]

musicdeb-- what exactly happens to Titan's skin when he eats chicken? I'm asking because it seems Mateo gets skin issues now and again, but seem to really show itself during the summer (small bumps that sometimes scab over, then go away.) Last summer it was the same.

But I am wondering if it's something I am feeding that is causing it. I use chicken mostly for the bone ratio...

That's exactly what happens. He gets those bumps you described and he gets black gucky stuff on his legs along with black guck in his ears. I stopped the yogurt for 2 weeks to see if it was that causing it.

 

[mcleodcon]

thanks I am going to get chicken today and going to give it a try! we will all know soon enough!

 

[musicdeb]

Taking the plunge! Keep us posted.

 

[mcleodcon]

Ok so I planned on starting chicken tonight when I got home, however it did not work out that way and I have chose not to feed her at all tonight. The reason behind this is when I got home she had exploded all over in her crate! This has never happened before EVER. Not even when I was giving her chicken based kibble! I don't know what has happened. I have been giving her beef for 7 days now but if she had a allergy to beef would it not have happened before this? It is very strange that she has done this. I kinda thought this morning she seemed a bit off but thought maybe she was just tired. Apparently she wasn't just tired. Oh my gosh what a mess! I have disinfected everything! Am I wrong in thinking that after 7 days she should be fine on it? Or could it be something else? What should I do? Honestly I don't ever want that to happen again!

 

[mcleodcon]

by the way I hadn't changed anything in 7 days so I am very confused!

 

[ruthcatrin]

How much, and what exactly, did you give her in the last 48 hrs or so?

 

[musicdeb]

I believe the issue may be that she had too much meat with not enough bone and organ meat too soon.

Up her bone and no organ meat for about a week. Make sure she has access to water so she stays hydrated.

Poor baby... Poor mcleodcon... Been there...done that...