Timidness

[Jlemon]

Thor is now 17 weeks old. We thought he would start growing out of being so timid but he's getting worse. First, Thor has never had a hand laid on him for punishment. He has been told a firm no and is learning what it means. He was potty trained quickly and hasn't had an accident in the house other than his times of timidness. Things like taking off his collar will make him run and hide. When you try to put it back on he will pee all over then hide again. My wife lets him out when she gets up for work in the morning and then puts him in his crate until I get home a couple hours later. I let him back out first thing, then he will come right in and pee and go hide. I don't understand why he is so subordinate to us but he's nothing like that with our other 2 dogs. Luckily we have slate floors throughout the house. I've read where he should outgrow it within a year.

 

[phoebegirl]

How do you usually react to him when he's timid or runs away? I'm no training expert so I'll let the others offer their opinion which will probably be more helpful! I was just wondering (because it's easy to do) if when he's timid he gets reassured which may reinforce the timidness.

When Phoebe (now 12 weeks old) starts to hunker down, startle, etc. I will give a very flat, matter-of-fact "let's go" and basically ignore whatever it is she's afraid of (usually a leaf or something blowing by lol) and she trusts to just come with me and then we redirect to something else.

EM are timid by nature and it's just something we have to work on them with when they're young to help grow their confidence, not just in us as pack leaders, but in themselves as a member of the pack!

 

[DennasMom]

Good advice from Phoebegirl!

Bladder control might still be developing, too - holding it in the crate versus holding it when the puppy is excited are two different things. So, I agree, he should grow out of it - as long as you don't call attention to it (in the dog's eyes).

The pee "and go hide" seems a bit problematic... if he's peeing due to excitement/submissive control issues, it's best to completely ignore it and not make it a big deal. If he's getting told NO! with hysterics (which is a natural reaction for many people), he's learning to be afraid of your reaction (and may start to anticipate it), and to hide from it... which is what you don't want.

Make coming home and leaving as low-key as possible... get him outside quickly and THEN make a BIG DEAL out of going pee outside - as a HAPPY thing.

Make sure you stay outside long enough for him to completely empty his bladder. Boys, especially, are good at portioning out their bladder contents, so if you can teach a "go potty" command and get him to eliminate twice - once when you first go outside... then have a potty party and play for a few minutes - and a second "go potty" just before you come inside (I give treats when coming inside after a successful potty)... that might help get the bladder more empty and more potential for success in not making puddles inside, too.

As for the subordinate to you thing - that's a natural puppy behavior. Get him out in the big-wide-world for some exploration and reward curiosity and confidence, encourage him to explore new things and places... he should open up and gain confidence the more new stuff he can encounter with positive interactions. It's a process, each puppy takes their own time to open up and find themselves.

 

[BartZ]

At 16 weeks pupps tend to settle in their ways and behavioural changes are difficult to achieve. But you never know maybe your pup can. I recommend a noisy environment for him to get used to. Lots of noises, loud TV, diy tools running if you're into this sort of thing etc.. I'm relatively new to dog training but I've read a lot and attended classes etc and that's the advice I've heard.

 

[BartZ]

And obviously get him out and about like Dennas says. That's very important. And socialise him with other dogs as much as possible. Good luck

 

[irina]

I would also say ignore his timid moments and ask him to do something you want instead like get a treat and call him to you. If he comes, throw a party!
I am a bit confused why you are taking off his collar every time. Can't you just keep the collar on and clip a leash to it when necessary? I would avoid situations that you know will make him uncomfortable, if possible, all along keeping them in mind and slowly trying to counter condition.

 

[PrinceLorde13]

Yes after the 12-16 week phase it can be more difficult to change behavior, but no where near impossible, and not even all that hard a lot of the time, their brains don't just lock down at that age just positive and negative experiences they have had as a puppy under 16weeks are the basis for their developing decision making skills. Be careful with the loud environment as well, yes introducing a dog to different kinds on sounds at different levels is great, but too much at once or too constant you can terrify the dog. Where does he hide, can you remove that option for him it might seem cruel but if you remove the option of flight all that's left is to be brave and fight through his fear, def do not coddle him when he's being fearful. Start trying to find confidence builders in general, start with small things he seems fearful or uncomfortable around and guide him through conquering it.
Irina I'm not sure about the OP but my dogs collars come off inside as well because when the play their jaw can get stuck on the other dogs collar and I've actually heard of one dog choking another to death because they were just trying to get unstuck

 

[DeeWill]

I feel your pain! My Lila is timid as well. She has finally come to trust us and our movements/actions, but when she has the freak out it's so frustrating. It feels as if you've lost 13 of the 12 steps forward!

We can actually make the timidity worse by our reactions. I am not saying you are, just suggesting that perhaps you might be.
You KNOW this is what he does when you take off his collar, so you go into it with the notion that this event will likely occur.
Try going into it knowing it won't. Calm. Quiet, NOT timid, measured or slow as this appears, to the dog, to be insecurity.
When Lila first came home my kids would hesitantly attempt to pet her because she was so 'scared' they didn't want to frighten her away. But thei timidity actually made her worse. I likened it to an appointment at the doctor or dentist, where you were very concerned with the outcome. Would you rather have the doctor or dentist walk in timid and unsure, or very sure of himself? I think we would all prefer he at least LOOK like he knows what he's doing! Same with the dog.
Everything about YOU needs to be calm and sure. Be very aware of the energy you have when working around or with your boy. As easy as it is to get frustrated, don't. Correct the behavior you don't want and praise what you DO want.
What I have done with Lila is teach her no matter what, the 'sit' assures she will be fine. No one will approach her, nothing will get her as long as she sits. It has kept her from running and hiding and avoiding people. When someone comes in the door, she comes into the room, approaches and sniffs as long as they don't try to pet her, and then she sits beside me (or, surprisingly, between them and me). If someone is trying to hard to pet her, she comes to me and sits. They won't ignore my words when she is that close to me (amazingly, they do otherwise)
Maybe work with those things. Teach him a default. Don't let him hide. Don't be afraid to 'correct' the fear behavior. He needs to know that is NOT what you expect from him. Be kind and gentle, but never timid and always firm.
Keep taking the collar on and off. Sooner or later it will sink in. To avoid taking it off isn't solving the issue, which is the piddle/run/hide. If he was mine, I would also keep him attached to me by a leash. Always. Work on leash training in your day to day until he gains some confidence in you. Teach him commands, give him a job, assure him that you are in control of the situation and he has nothing to worry about as long as you are there.
Good luck and please update. This experience with Lila has taught me so much.

 

[irina]

Irina I'm not sure about the OP but my dogs collars come off inside as well because when the play their jaw can get stuck on the other dogs collar and I've actually heard of one dog choking another to death because they were just trying to get unstuck

I guess it makes sense if you have multiple dogs, however I would expect their play to be supervised. We have only one dog, and for me it's a matter of security. In case he somehow escaped out of the house, his ID tags are on his collar. He is microchipped as well, but that can take time.
Anyway, my point was to remove unnecessary triggers for now, so that dog is not overwhelmed by too many "scary" situations at the same time.

 

[Jlemon]

Thanks for the advice. I should have been more clear on some things. He's not constantly timid. He plays with our 2 other dogs, a 3 year old EM female and a 3 year old male mixed. He plays with us all the time, follows us everywhere and climbs all over us. He doesn't shy from strangers either. He doesn't hide from things like the vacuum. He will just walk to his crate and lay down. We have 13 and 16 year old boys so it's usually loud in the house. It's just certain things that sends him peeing and running. The collar thing, well he's an 18 week old growing boy. It needs to be taken off and adjusted almost weekly. It's little things like reaching down to pick him up. Or just petting him sometimes.

 

[irina]

Maybe try working on one issue at a time. Like for example the collar. Call him to you randomly throughout the day, touch his collar, give a high value treat if he does not shy away. This way with practice he will learn to associate you touching the collar with something positive rather than scary and stressful.

 

[phoebegirl]

Maybe try working on one issue at a time. Like for example the collar. Call him to you randomly throughout the day, touch his collar, give a high value treat if he does not shy away. This way with practice he will learn to associate you touching the collar with something positive rather than scary and stressful.

Good advice on working through this with baby steps!

 

[Hector]

[video=youtube;4P-Zo4qBD8I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P-Zo4qBD8I[/video]