What do we know about the Lepto vaccine?

[Boxergirl]

For the first time in many years I'm being pushed to give it to my dogs. Really pushed. Roy in particular because he might be going to our lake house in Michigan. The risk in St. Joseph county is minimal - no reported cases last year. I can't find an incidence map for NW Indiana, but he really isn't at a great risk in our yard. I'm a little annoyed at being talked to like I'm an uninformed or a bad owner because I'm hesitant to give a vaccine that has many reported bad reactions. I make educated decisions. I'm not an unintelligent person, nor am I someone that does something just because someone told me to. I'm leaning toward getting it for Roy, and only Roy, as he's the only one that would go to Michigan this year. I'm also concerned because I can't find the answer as to what kind of a vaccine it is. I know it's not a virus, but a bacteria. I don't know if that makes it different than other vaccines. Like it modified live? Is that a thing for a vaccine like this? I know they do modified live for viruses and that means that it can be shed in the urine for a period of time. If it's the same for the lepto vaccine, can it be shed in the vaccinated dog's urine? Thereby putting my other dogs that are unvaccinated at risk?

I know these are questions for my vet, and I will ask them. I'm not going to my regular vet, however. I'm going to the clinic where my daughter works. I'm a bit strapped for cash after the wedding and they give a 50% discount which is a great deal right now. I want to make the most informed decision I can. Does anyone have an opinion? Other general info: I tend to do a three year rabies and forego the other vaccines for as long as possible. If I do Lepto and Lyme I would do them apart from the rabies shot.

 

[FosterMom]

Don't know if this was what you were looking for but maybe it will help a little. Overview of Leptospirosis: Leptospirosis: Merck Veterinary Manual

 

[marke]

you may have already run across this ....... and personally , my dogs are exposed to rivers ponds and puddles that are absolutely watering holes for any wildlife native to ohio , they also do tend to kill their fair share of opposums , woodchucks , squirrels , raccoons , rabbits , mice and moles , and they do eat some of them ... i've haven't given any of them a lepto vaccine for 20+ years ........... [video=youtube;Sp-rK2kQREY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp-rK2kQREY[/video]

 

[Boxergirl]

Thanks guys. I do know about the disease itself. The vet argued that water had nothing to do with it and said I was Dr. Googling. I don't personally feel that we have many risk factors as we don't camp or hike. Roy *might* go to the lake in Michigan this year, but most likely he won't. He gets car sick and doesn't like the water.

I like to have all my facts in front of me when making a decision. Usually the doctors and vets I deal with appreciate that I go in knowing about whatever we're doing or whatever the issue is. Clearly not this time. The vet was talking to my daughter yesterday, who is one of the techs at the clinic. Her comments were enough to make me consider cancelling our Monday appointment, but the 50% discount is too good to pass up. It's just for our 3 year rabies and heartworm and *maybe* lyme and lepto. I would not go to this clinic for anything else, honestly. I'm going to ask pointed questions on Monday. Particularly about the type of vaccine it is, although I don't expect them to know the answer without contacting the manufacturer of the vaccine. I'm not uneducated and and don't appreciate being talked about, or to, as if I am. My main concern, and the one thing I can't seem to find an answer to, is the type of vaccine used. If it's modified live and can be shed in the urine then I have a problem giving it. My kids are immune compromised. Granted, only one still lives with me, but she's the one with ALL the major health problems. I just want all the facts.

Marke, Dr. Becker founded the clinic I am looking at for Ella's spay. I wouldn't see her, as she no longer takes new clients, but I like the feel of the clinic. It's not terribly far for me to drive and it would be nice to deal with like-minded doctors.

 

[sjdavenport]

The only lepto vaccines I'm aware of are killed. You could call the clinic (or just get your daughter to look in the vaccine fridge at work) and tell you what brand of vaccine they're using. It's not secret information, you should be able to find whether it's killed or a MLV online. I'm almost certain they're all killed and adjuvanted (why it only lasts a year or less), but it doesn't hurt to double check. We hike a lot and lepto is definitely in my area, so I feel like my dogs are at enough risk that I vaccinate 3 out of my 4. Mazey sometimes has weird vaccine reactions, so for her, I feel the risks outweigh the benefits, so she's never seen a lepto vaccine. I've seen lepto in dogs, and it can be bad. And hard to diagnose sometimes. But still not that common. I don't feel like EVERY dog needs the vaccine. It's just one of those fun decisions you have to make for your dogs. the most common reaction I've seen to the vaccine is a little swelling and soreness at the vaccine site for a day or two.

 

[Boxergirl]

The only lepto vaccines I'm aware of are killed. You could call the clinic (or just get your daughter to look in the vaccine fridge at work) and tell you what brand of vaccine they're using. It's not secret information, you should be able to find whether it's killed or a MLV online. I'm almost certain they're all killed and adjuvanted (why it only lasts a year or less), but it doesn't hurt to double check. We hike a lot and lepto is definitely in my area, so I feel like my dogs are at enough risk that I vaccinate 3 out of my 4. Mazey sometimes has weird vaccine reactions, so for her, I feel the risks outweigh the benefits, so she's never seen a lepto vaccine. I've seen lepto in dogs, and it can be bad. And hard to diagnose sometimes. But still not that common. I don't feel like EVERY dog needs the vaccine. It's just one of those fun decisions you have to make for your dogs. the most common reaction I've seen to the vaccine is a little swelling and soreness at the vaccine site for a day or two.

Thanks very much for the info. I'll have her check the fridge when she goes in tonight for kennels. I didn't think of doing that. I was just thrown by how vehement and judgmental the doctor was. Maybe she was having a bad day, so I'll be sure not to go in defensive on Monday. I am seriously considering doing both lepto and lyme. I just like to have all my facts straight before I make a decision. My decision. Most likely he will get it. Maybe not this year, but next year.

 

[sjdavenport]

You're welcome. It's never wrong to want to have as much info as possible before making a health decision. Sorry you were treated like that. And that reminds me, I need to take all of mine in for Lyme. I never thought I'd find somewhere that has more ticks than Alabama.....

 

[DennasMom]

My vet pushed me to give the Lepto vaccine to Denna last year... he said "it's the only voluntary one I make sure to give to my own dogs"... so I did it. No adverse reactions, but after reading up on it when I got home, I vowed to never give it again. From what I remember the bug mutates quickly, so the vaccine has a low success rate, and unless your dog is immuno-compromised, they normally recover well with proper care... that's just what I remember, though... I'd need to "Dr. Google" it again to double-check my memory.

 

[DennasMom]

Here's some info I probably relied on last year to make my decision: The Lepto Vaccine: Why Vets Give It Yearly - Dogs Naturally Magazine

If anyone thinks dogsnaturally is a biased, unreliable source, please let me know... I tend to give them a lot of credit... so if I've misplaced my trust, slap me, please.

 

[angelbears]

I do like Dogs Naturally but I think that they have become more biased over the years. I will take a lead from them but I no longer trust just them. BG, I don't do the Lepto but my dogs are very isolated. I don't envy you having to make this decision.

 

[Boxergirl]

I chose not to do lepto or lyme this year. I'll most likely do both in the spring, but the dogs won't be going to the lake this year so I don't feel they are at risk. I did a three year rabies and we are having a full blood panel done because Roy had elevated liver enzymes and when my daughter was doing frequent urine samples during tech school several students found bilirubin crystals. We felt it was best to get some liver and kidney numbers. I'm a little nervous about the results.

I was rather surprised that none of the vets knew who Jean Dodds is. They kind of poo-pooed me when I followed her vaccine protocol, saying that "people get reputations" blah, blah. Jean Dodds has been around for a long time and they hadn't even heard of her for thyroid issues or her vaccine protocol. The boxer world has felt for years that she's the one you go to for thyroid issues. Maybe not the only one, but one of best.

 

[angelbears]

Fingers crossed for Roy! All the vets that I have talked to pretend not to know Dodds. I think most have and just won't confess that they do. If so they would have to be able to defend their position against hers.

 

[marke]

i think this schultz guy has reasonable credentials , probably better than most , to have an opinion on it ...... i don't know where he got his statistics , but they would explain why i've never seen it in my dogs , and only personally know of one dog ever to have it ..... i do live in the north , but i would think my dogs would be in the high risk group as anytime we're in the woods , which often is everyday , their source of drinking water are puddles , ponds , creeks and rivers ..........

In high risk exposure areas, the clinical incidence is about 1:1000-2500 dogs; whereas the general risk is only about 1:5000-10,000 dogs. Although positive MAT serovar titers have ascribed leptospirosis to the L. autumnalis and L. Bratislava servoars, these do not produce clinical disease.

Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | Dr. Ron Schultz Update on Leptospirosis Vaccines... ............................................................. with all the health issues attributed to the breeds of dogs i've had , ddb , bullmastiffs and neos , it's hard to understand why mine have been so healthy , i'm not a raw feeder , so it's not that . i've never had a dog with an allergy of any kind , no skin problems , or food intolerance ........ i grew up around minimally vaccinated dogs , so i really didn't need anyone to tell me to not yearly vaccinate my dogs , i found out early on that it only took one vaccination at the right time to get an immunity , which allowed me vaccinate my pups minimally ........ when i see a person educated and experienced at something , and they tell me , only do this if it's absolutely necessary , i have to wonder why only if necessary ..............

 

[BAMCB]

Thanks for bringing this up boxergirl! I know I will be urged to get it this year with Sonny. He does go to the forest preserve and swim in the river and that is her biggest angle.

 

[MM1234]

Thanks for the great thread! I have a 13 year old German Pinscher & a 10 year old Rat Terrier, both of their breeders were very adamant about not giving the Lepto vaccine - so I never gave them the vaccine. Knock on wood, I haven't had any issues at all with Lepto from them. I have a 5 year old Bully mix rescue that I did vaccinate with the Lepto vaccine, no bad reaction happened. Now I have a new puppy coming my way & I am trying to figure out whether I will give him the vaccine or not. I am going to talk to his breeder and see what he thinks but the links were very informative & I appreciate them!