19 Week Old EM Biting

[Hiraeth]

I can find multiple quotes from internationally renowned trainers who are also DVMs that say just the opposite. The thing is, I'm not super interested in getting into a quoting battle because with the internet at our disposal, we can literally find quotes that support whatever training methods we use. Heck, I could find a quote from Koehler that says you should elevate an aggressive dog by a choke chain and strangle it until it submits. I can also find a quote from some PETA member that says "saying 'no' to your dog is abusive".

Those are extremes and are both clearly wrong ways of approaching dog training. What I do produces results. It's also what Denise Fenzi and Susan Garrett, who have two of the top agility dogs in the world, do, and it also produces results with their dogs.

Guess what? I haven't always thought this way. Believe me, I tried corrective and force-based training on dogs when I was 18 and 19 years old. I saw the fallout it caused firsthand. I can say, from experience, that my relationship with the dogs who are trained without correction is much stronger, and their desire to engage in training is much stronger, than any dog I have interacted with in a correction-based training mindset.

Until someone can say "I've personally tried positive reinforcement, it didn't work, it created a screwed up dog", they don't have a mountain to stand on in this fight. You cannot trash a method that you haven't tried personally and seen the negative effects of firsthand. Especially a method that works well for many people out there in the dog training world today.

 

[season]

Well said. I'd just like to see some videos. Start to finish type videos of these trainers working with dogs with serious issues. Using no corrections. Similar to what this trainer asks for. I'm not sure if he got any. I'd really love to see any.
[video=youtube_share;8-WRko73sSM]http://youtu.be/8-WRko73sSM[/video]


Carpe Diem

 

[teodora]

Hiraeth - what made you think I was talking about your dogs???? I was actually thinking of some brats we see on the beach every day.

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[gilles]

its a long debate i think..each one had success with a given method....i think one should look at the dog s situation and breed and character and decide which training method is suited best...sure all dog breeds are still dogs and share common traits but i dont think training a toy breed dog , a GSD, a Mastiff and a CAO is done successfully with the same approach.

 

[Jaszies_dad]

My Jaszie had awful biting habit at a young age2-3 months mostly with me and we did the misdirection (toys, bones) yipes and no's did not work.. Now she is fine at 8 months.. Keep with consistent direction... What would you do for a teething playful baby? That's what I recommend for a puppy.. Just my two cents

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[gilles]

if left untrained with some dogs this habit disappears but with others it tends to get more intense with age..it depends on the character...what is more important is to work on resource and food aggression which is a natural behavior...its very important for giant dogs especially with kids around not to have this type of aggression... i start training my pups at an early age ..now i can take the bone right out from their mouth with no issues.

 

[irina]

I think the best way to share different opinions is just that share without insulting other members and making them unwilling to share in the future. If you think other member's advice is not the best in a particular situation you can say so and explain why you think another method would work better, but probably unnecessary to call their advice horrible and make them sound like a monster abusing their dog. After attacks like that, nobody wants to share. We should respect each other and each other's opinions.

 

[season]

I don't see anyone being "attacked" on this thread. Hiraeth does a great job with her dogs. We may not agree on everything but we agree on some things. I always like reading her posts. Standing up for your beliefs always gets my respect.
On a side note, i raised a "small" dog the same way I raise Solo. Firm rules, boundaries, limitations. Praise what I like correct what I don't.


Carpe Diem

 

[season]

I'm only speaking for myself, but when someone disagrees with my opinion I don't automatically think they are insulting me or attacking me. I'd much rather have someone "correct" me with straight forwardness. I don't need everything to be cuddly feely. But again, that's just me. I've also has to learn to be less blunt and a little more cuddly. I'm cool with that.


Carpe Diem

 

[Joao M]

Several methods work, not just one. I believe there is consensus on that
If we are able to be 24/7 with our dogs, it´s pretty easy to have success with almost any method as long as the owner knows something about dogs
If not (most owners are not able to do that) we have to adopt a method that is effective and adjusted to our life, choosing the least intrusive within the effective ones preferably.
The important thing is to correct (I´m using this term broadly) bad behaviours when they are pupps so those behaviours don´t become a big problem when dogs are adults

 

[season]

Well said

 

[Hiraeth]

I think the best way to share different opinions is just that share without insulting other members and making them unwilling to share in the future. If you think other member's advice is not the best in a particular situation you can say so and explain why you think another method would work better, but probably unnecessary to call their advice horrible and make them sound like a monster abusing their dog. After attacks like that, nobody wants to share. We should respect each other and each other's opinions.

I don't see anyone being "attacked" on this thread. Hiraeth does a great job with her dogs. We may not agree on everything but we agree on some things. I always like reading her posts. Standing up for your beliefs always gets my respect. On a side note, i raised a "small" dog the same way I raise Solo. Firm rules, boundaries, limitations. Praise what I like correct what I don't. Carpe Diem

I think Irina is talking about my original response to the poster who recommended throwing a chain in the puppy's face.

Sorry, I stand by my claim. That is horrible advice. I wanted to word it strongly because the OP said "okay, I'll try that".

I mean, whether we're talking about +P or +R training, WHY in the world would you want your dog to be scared of the sound a pinch collar makes? What happens when the dog is afraid of it and you want to use it for future training?

At least, if you're going to go the +P route and hurt the dog to associate a certain noise with pain and the "stop that right now" message, pick a noise that's not related to a training tool that you may want to incorporate into your training in the future. And preferably don't hit your puppy in the face with anything.

 

[gilles]

I think Irina is talking about my original response to the poster who recommended throwing a chain in the puppy's face. Sorry, I stand by my claim. That is horrible advice. I wanted to word it strongly because the OP said "okay, I'll try that". I mean, whether we're talking about +P or +R training, WHY in the world would you want your dog to be scared of the sound a pinch collar makes? What happens when the dog is afraid of it and you want to use it for future training? At least, if you're going to go the +P route and hurt the dog to associate a certain noise with pain and the "stop that right now" message, pick a noise that's not related to a training tool that you may want to incorporate into your training in the future. And preferably don't hit your puppy in the face with anything.

for the last time i never said to throw anything at the puppy's face nor to scare him or hurt him ..i am not sure why you keep misinterpret me....i tried on many occasions to make that clear but it seems you are not getting the message... we are pros at my kennel and most probably more qualified than your average dog owner must i say i am not some ignorant owner just throwing advice left and right. so again please stop misinterpreting me and i really dont need quotes from susan garett and anybody...maybe susan can get some advice from sergei! we are training CAO 's here not agility dogs. please excuse my reaction but you insist on interpreting me wrong so i had to do it. sorry

 

[gilles]

Hiraeth in order to to make an issue about it in the posts i sent you a nice message to clarify things but you keep misinterpreting me

 

[Hiraeth]

Hiraeth in order to to make an issue about it in the posts i sent you a nice message to clarify things but you keep misinterpreting me

This was your original quote:

...give it a week or so but be consistent: get a choke chain and tuck it in your hand, as he tries to bite you say NO and throw the chain on him , the metallic sound will stop him.

You said to throw the chain ON the dog. Which means the chain would hit him.

Words are important. If that's not what you meant to say, then that's fine, but that is what you *actually* said, and anyone reading that and interpreting it would think that you meant to say to hit the dog with the chain.

I suggest you proofread your posts for wording and clarity when giving advice from now on.

 

[marke]

This was your original quote: You said to throw the chain ON the dog. Words are important. .

throwing a chain in the puppy's face

I suggest you proofread your posts for wording and clarity when giving advice from now on

i've banged pans to get my dogs attention before , as soon as yesterday to break up a fight , my dogs aren't scared of anything , they are stupid bold .....

 

[Joao M]

I think the OP gave up on this thread 4 days ago when the "back and forth" began.

 

[gilles]

This was your original quote: You said to throw the chain ON the dog. Which means the chain would hit him. Words are important. If that's not what you meant to say, then that's fine, but that is what you *actually* said, and anyone reading that and interpreting it would think that you meant to say to hit the dog with the chain. I suggest you proofread your posts for wording and clarity when giving advice from now on.

i meant in the first sentence: in order NOT to make an issue .....