Cesar Millan: Opinion

[CeeCee]

Ahhh Cesar, he does seem to be a lighting rod. I've read some of his books and watched his shows. Here's what he's taught me that I use:

1) He talks a lot about being aware of your energy and what energy you're giving to your dog.
2) He also makes us aware of our intention, visualizing, and creating what it is that you want.
3) He reminds us that we need to earn our dogs trust and respect.
4) I use his formula of exercise, discipline (I read this as structure - not punishment), and affection.

If you haven't already, I would encourage you to read some of his books. I would also recommend reading Suzanne Clothier. She has a lot of great articles on her website http://suzanneclothier.com/ - especially the one on Leadership Basics.

 

[grazefull1]

ok ok i kinda watch cesar but for some thing rether than them others but what do think of cesar compatition, i forgot her name but i really like her, she the british lady from, its me or the dog ,she not too bad, altought it isnt nice when she talk badly of some of people she try to help at least she should tone it down abit lol n some of it is funny but its like she forget she telling the world that these people r dumb but thats y they call for her help in the 1st place lol

 

[DennasMom]

I'm with you CeeCee - all 4 points are right on!

I learned a lot from watching Cesar, and was able to apply a lot of his methods to a bully of a bulldog to mend his ways (and no, I never kick or choke any of my dogs!). We also noticed 100% improvement in our over-excited Dane/Lab mix when we stopped allowing him to 'hunt' on our walks, and made him 'travel' with us instead. It made a WORLD of difference.

I also LOVE the "power of the pack". I love seeing how the "big bad bully" dogs react when faced with 50 balanced dogs all at once. The transformations brought about by pure nature were enlightening.

His early shows were much better - before he got caught up in his own celebrity.
I can't stand his new 'reality' show about people competing over adopting a single dog... as if there weren't enough rescues to go around. Get 5 families and 5 dogs - then at the end match them all up (it is a good idea to show people HOW to pick the right dog for your family)... no one should NOT get a dog that is willing and able to care for one.

That being said - when he lost his own pack (he's now divorced) - he lost my vote. If he's such a balanced person, he should have been able to communicate better with Illusion and keep it together. She seemed like a very nice person.

As for having his staff 'envoke' the reactions for the show - yes, I would expect that to be required when filming a show. If you're working with a dog-aggressive/reactive case, you're going to need to bring a dog into the picture to elicit the behavior you're trying to fix. You can't tell the dog not to do something he hasn't done in front of you...

Grazefull1 - you mean Victoria Stillwell? She has her good points, but a lot of the things she tries to work on I can see Cesar fixing in 10 minutes... where she leaves the people still playing crate-roulette to keep the peace. She also seems more interested in her convertibles than working within the reality of the families' lives.

 

[grazefull1]

hmm... so is spending more time on a problem more of a head ack r is fixing the problem quick skiping the underlining issue ?
i think mashing everything u learn, n seeing what works for u best is all up to u n me thats y there 100's of ways to train a dog
it always leads to choice

 

[ruthcatrin]

I've never watched Victoria, but wasn't she the one who enticed some terrier into attacking her boots and then told the owners he wasn't fixable or am I thinking of someone else? I will say that she's trying to use her fame to improve dog/pet legislation and other such issues, which is cool.

 

[BugattiAlva]

Well that explains why you were telling someone to alpha roll their human aggressive dog.....please don't.....

I expected this from you. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, that's why this is a forum. I'm just explaining why I like Cesar. I like Cesar he's amazing!

 

[joshuagough]

He used that guy and the dog he was fostering to bring out the anxiety in problematic dogs, I don't really see a issue in that? To be able to work with a bad behavior you would typically do that?

Did you guys watch the third video I posted where his staff member states he provokes dogs with himself and his dog???

---------- Post added at 08:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:10 PM ----------

I've seen vets use a pin & hold on pups and it seemed to work to calm them. I've not seen many use a true alpha roll but I guess if it works, it's surely better than kicking a dog.

That said I try and roll my EM on the bed all the time, I'm about 250 and it takes about everything in me to make him roll on his back if he doesn't want to lol.

I expected this from you. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, that's why this is a forum. I'm just explaining why I like Cesar. I like Cesar he's amazing!

 

[joshuagough]

above

 

[Smart_Family]

Some dogs will submit to a pin, others won't. Eventually there will be that dog that won't and someone will get hurt.

 

[joshuagough]

I can see that, this however was just a young Mastiff pup. It's not something I would do for correction.. but again it's a tool.

Some dogs will submit to a pin, others won't. Eventually there will be that dog that won't and someone will get hurt.

 

[Smart_Family]

A young mastiff pup is still capable if hurting and being hurt.

 

[ruthcatrin]

I expected this from you. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, that's why this is a forum. I'm just explaining why I like Cesar. I like Cesar he's amazing!

Please look up what a real alpha roll is before advising its use! And not CM's definition. Its a perfect example of whats wrong with some of his methods.

---------- Post added at 09:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 PM ----------

I've seen vets use a pin & hold on pups and it seemed to work to calm them. I've not seen many use a true alpha roll but I guess if it works, it's surely better than kicking a dog.

That said I try and roll my EM on the bed all the time, I'm about 250 and it takes about everything in me to make him roll on his back if he doesn't want to lol.

If its in play, and the dogs understand its in play, I don't have a problem with it, dogs bowl each other over all the time. Thats not an alpha roll, in either sense of the term.

As for vets, it "seems to work to calm" because the pup is a pup, they understand that they're little and the other person is big, and because vets are trained to hold animals such that they can be examined even if they don't want to be. It doesn't work on all pups, and vets know that too, but they don't have the time to create the rapaport with each and every dog they see to get the dog to allow them to hold still while being examined.

 

[ruthcatrin]

I've seen vets use a pin & hold on pups and it seemed to work to calm them. I've not seen many use a true alpha roll but I guess if it works, it's surely better than kicking a dog.

That said I try and roll my EM on the bed all the time, I'm about 250 and it takes about everything in me to make him roll on his back if he doesn't want to lol.

If its in play, and the dogs understand its in play, I don't have a problem with it, dogs bowl each other over all the time. Thats not an alpha roll, in either sense of the term.

As for vets, it "seems to work to calm" because the pup is a pup, they understand that they're little and the other person is big, and because vets are trained to hold animals such that they can be examined even if they don't want to be. It doesn't work on all pups, and vets know that too, but they don't have the time to create the rapaport with each and every dog they see to get the dog to allow them to hold still while being examined.

 

[joshuagough]

Ehh?

[video=youtube;Y20K-przul4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y20K-przul4[/video]

Please look up what a real alpha roll is before advising its use! And not CM's definition. Its a perfect example of whats wrong with some of his methods.

---------- Post added at 09:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 PM ----------



If its in play, and the dogs understand its in play, I don't have a problem with it, dogs bowl each other over all the time. Thats not an alpha roll, in either sense of the term.

As for vets, it "seems to work to calm" because the pup is a pup, they understand that they're little and the other person is big, and because vets are trained to hold animals such that they can be examined even if they don't want to be. It doesn't work on all pups, and vets know that too, but they don't have the time to create the rapaport with each and every dog they see to get the dog to allow them to hold still while being examined.

 

[Cody]

I would like all the CM fans to answer one question;
When have you seen CM "alpha roll" /kick or use any physical contact with a working breed?
Small dogs yes, sporting yes, herders sometimes... Rotties? Boerboels? Mastiffs? Nope...
There is a reason for that, he likes his face and throat intact. These breeds are NOT made to be alpha rolled by a stranger. These are guardian breeds. I should hope my dogs would react if some yahoo decided he was going to "roll" them. In any show I have seen with him and these breeds he spends time tryin to earn their trust and respect, that IS NOT done by rolling dogs, in fact you are doing the opposite. My dogs submit with a look, not because I have ever forced or used physical persuasion to, but because they respect me. They will also submit to my 45lb 8year old son for the same reason.
Cesar Milan has his benefits, people realizing that just because a dog is small it is still a dog for example. I also agree with his use of energy. But in many cases when you are watching his show, his energy is anything but calm. In the Holly video he was a far cry from calm assertive, he was livid and bullying. Kudo's to Holly for tellin him to piss off.
Also, perhaps the MOST IMPORTANT part of his show that people seem to ignore is that little disclaimer at he beginning...." Don't try this a home"! Too bad no one listens to tha part of it I have met some extremely messed up dogs from CM wannabes.

 

[BugattiAlva]

Ehh?

[video=youtube;Y20K-przul4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y20K-przul4[/video]

Lmao!!! I'm glad I know the "true" alpha roll definition now I (all 103lbs of me) will start pinning my 60 lbs pup like that

---------- Post added at 10:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 PM ----------

 

[BugattiAlva]

Deleted due to double post.

 

[BugattiAlva]

I would like all the CM fans to answer one question;
When have you seen CM "alpha roll" /kick or use any physical contact with a working breed?
Small dogs yes, sporting yes, herders sometimes... Rotties? Boerboels? Mastiffs? Nope...
There is a reason for that, he likes his face and throat intact. These breeds are NOT made to be alpha rolled by a stranger. These are guardian breeds. I should hope my dogs would react if some yahoo decided he was going to "roll" them. In any show I have seen with him and these breeds he spends time tryin to earn their trust and respect, that IS NOT done by rolling dogs, in fact you are doing the opposite. My dogs submit with a look, not because I have ever forced or used physical persuasion to, but because they respect me. They will also submit to my 45lb 8year old son for the same reason.
Cesar Milan has his benefits, people realizing that just because a dog is small it is still a dog for example. I also agree with his use of energy. But in many cases when you are watching his show, his energy is anything but calm. In the Holly video he was a far cry from calm assertive, he was livid and bullying. Kudo's to Holly for tellin him to piss off.
Also, perhaps the MOST IMPORTANT part of his show that people seem to ignore is that little disclaimer at he beginning...." Don't try this a home"! Too bad no one listens to tha part of it I have met some extremely messed up dogs from CM wannabes.

I follow CM techniques and my pup is super obedient. People always ask me how do I do it and I let them know the truth which is CM techniques, patience, consistency and calmness. As far as the pinning or "alpha roll" I simply sit my dog make him go on his side and leave him there, until he relaxes. I don't physically hold him down, I just tell him stay and he does, with no hold down WWE wrestling lol. Once he chills out, I tell him get up, and I walk away from him. Has worked miracles for me. I do it less and less as he grows because he's learning.

 

[CeeCee]

Okay, I'm not following WHY people are doing an alpha roll. Is it done in a context? Is it done randomly? Is it as a consequence for a behavior i.e., to put the dog in a submissive position when they have assumed a higher rank and made a poor decision in that position?

I'm not looking to learn how to do it. Just trying to understand it.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Okay, I'm not following WHY people are doing an alpha roll. Is it done in a context? Is it done randomly? Is it as a consequence for a behavior i.e., to put the dog in a submissive position when they have assumed a higher rank and made a poor decision in that position?

I'm not looking to learn how to do it. Just trying to understand it.

An "alpha roll" as defined by CM, and unfortunetly alot of other people including some trainers, is to force the dog to submit by putting the dog on his side or back. The concept being that it shows you're in charge and that it relaxes the dog. Now, yes, with SOME temperments it works that way. But like Cody said, there are dogs for whom its a VERY BAD IDEA.

A real alpha roll is done by the submitting dog of its own violation. The "dominate" dog (or person) does NOT in any way force the other dog over. Its an acknowledgement by the submitting dog that "ooops! I didn't mean to!!" and it is done voluntarily.

Forcing a dog to a vunerable physical position like that, is really doing nothing more than showing you're a big bully. With the wrong temperment of dog it becomes a challenge that the dog must meet and beat. With an already fearful dog it can make their fear worse, and even result in fear of the handler/owner who forced them over. When the fearful dog is already showing severe fear aggression doing something that will likely result in the dog becoming fearful of the owner is not a good thing.

Like I stated in my first post SOME of his techniques are usefull with SOME dogs. CeeCee the example you cited is one of the things I don't have a problem with in general. I do however have a HUGE problem with the way CM applies it. Unfortunetly many people view his techniques as the be all and end all of dog training, and have no problem trying to apply the techniques in situations where they're not appropriate.

And frankly I won't ever recommend him because although SOME of his techniques are useful, too many of his episodes show him doing the exact opposite (like with the situation with Holly), and far too people take what they see as the example of how to do things. Add in the blatant abuse, like choking a dog to unconciousness (never mind the blatent mis-use of the choke collar there), and I won't support him.

And frankly, if you need to calm your dog down there are better ways to do it than to show how much of a bully you are, even if the dog allows you to do so.