Right about the AKC (unfortunately)

[Justin B.]

Annette Coleman
All registries work like that. All of them. They dont lie or hide how the process works. There is no better way to do it. You have to protect and educate yourself in the dog world.

Sent you the additional info you requested on the proof.

Well thats a very limited experience. You had a bad experience with a ton of red warning flags prior. People have those same experiences with unpapered dogs too.

Pure bred papered dogs are not for everyone.
No matter what you take a risk buying living things.

Plenty of adoptable dogs out there.
Plenty of big mixes or even "pure" unpapered awesome dogs out there too. Plus it saves a ton of money.
Everyone and there needs are different.

Im kind of curious to see the dog.

 

[Annette Coleman]

Annette Coleman
All registries work like that. All of them. They dont lie or hide how the process works. There is no better way to do it. You have to protect and educate yourself in the dog world.

Sent you the additional info you requested on the proof.

Well thats a very limited experience. You had a bad experience with a ton of red warning flags prior. People have those same experiences with unpapered dogs too.

Pure bred papered dogs are not for everyone.
No matter what you take a risk buying living things.

Plenty of adoptable dogs out there.
Plenty of big mixes or even "pure" unpapered awesome dogs out there too. Plus it saves a ton of money.
Everyone and there needs are different.

Im kind of curious to see the dog.

 

[Annette Coleman]

Just curious what is your experience with AKC? Why are you such a staunch defender of their practices? My motive is plain. What are yours?

What are the characteristics of people that papered dogs are for? Conversely, what are the characteristics of people that paperef dogs are not for?

I'll. Send pics of the dog the next tI'm I'm using my computer instead of my phone.

BTW: many of the red flags did not appear until AFTER we had made a deposit.

What do you know about the UKC?

 

[Justin B.]

Just curious what is your experience with AKC? Why are you such a staunch defender of their practices? My motive is plain. What are yours?

What are the characteristics of people that papered dogs are for? Conversely, what are the characteristics of people that paperef dogs are not for?

I'll. Send pics of the dog the next tI'm I'm using my computer instead of my phone.

BTW: many of the red flags did not appear until AFTER we had made a deposit.

What do you know about the UKC?

Owned and registered dozens and dozens of AKC Rottweilers. And various other breeds with the AKC.

When I got into Cane Corsos they were not a recognized breed by the AKC.
They had their own specialty registry and club the ICCF. The ICCF wanted to work towards getting the breed recognized by the AKC and for them to become an official breed in their books. They achieved this.

When they did this I knew that the AKC would become the more valuable and preferred papers for the breed. Like they are for all dogs in America with that option. So I had all my dogs at the time get AKC papers durring their open enrollment phase. Thats where they accepted the ICCF papers and pedigree as their own.

Because their practices are standard. And all registries opperate like that. I wouldnt classify that as support. Just a factual statement.

My motive was to try and answer questions for people who don't really understand what the AKC does. Im sure most people dont.

For future reference the red flags I refer to were..... They have a notorious reputation online. Some of their website pics speak for themselves. The pay to see the real contract thing.

Yes you need AKC papers to get UKC papers. The UKC considers the AKC so credible they allow open enrollment for their paper work and pedigree. Most registries take AKC papers because their process meets or exceeds their own standards.

Im pretty sure its been explained in earlier post in the thread. Its a registry and club. It does the exact same things the AKC does.
-papers
-pedigree
-dog shows
-working sporting events

Not sure what you mean with the "Characteristics" question...
I think the best way to look at it is some people feel that the added insurance of some 3rd party varification are worth getting a dog with papers.
Even if its not 100%. It still filters a lot of stuff out
Or the ability to compete in dog shows and confirmation.

If that stuff doesn't mean anything to someone than theu aren't a papered dog kind of person. It seems like you may be leaning towards that route. Nothing wrong with that. Saves time hassle and money.

 

[Annette Coleman]

Owned and registered dozens and dozens of AKC Rottweilers. And various other breeds with the AKC.

When I got into Cane Corsos they were not a recognized breed by the AKC.
They had their own specialty registry and club the ICCF. The ICCF wanted to work towards getting the breed recognized by the AKC and for them to become an official breed in their books. They achieved this.

When they did this I knew that the AKC would become the more valuable and preferred papers for the breed. Like they are for all dogs in America with that option. So I had all my dogs at the time get AKC papers durring their open enrollment phase. Thats where they accepted the ICCF papers and pedigree as their own.

Because their practices are standard. And all registries opperate like that. I wouldnt classify that as support. Just a factual statement.

My motive was to try and answer questions for people who don't really understand what the AKC does. Im sure most people dont.

For future reference the red flags I refer to were..... They have a notorious reputation online. Some of their website pics speak for themselves. The pay to see the real contract thing.

Yes you need AKC papers to get UKC papers. The UKC considers the AKC so credible they allow open enrollment for their paper work and pedigree. Most registries take AKC papers because their process meets or exceeds their own standards.

Im pretty sure its been explained in earlier post in the thread. Its a registry and club. It does the exact same things the AKC does.
-papers
-pedigree
-dog shows
-working sporting events

Not sure what you mean with the "Characteristics" question...
I think the best way to look at it is some people feel that the added insurance of some 3rd party varification are worth getting a dog with papers.
Even if its not 100%. It still filters a lot of stuff out
Or the ability to compete in dog shows and confirmation.

If that stuff doesn't mean anything to someone than theu aren't a papered dog kind of person. It seems like you may be leaning towards that route. Nothing wrong with that. Saves time hassle and money.

You have a financial motive for attempting to maintain the pretige of the AKC. The problem is that the pretige and value of AKC is based on the fact that the general public doesn't understand exactly what the AKC does and more importantly does NOT do.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

The AKC has never put itself out there as more than a registry, this is why you have to have a BREED CLUB put the breed forward. They (the breed club) are responsible for the breed, the standard, and policies governing our breed.

You are upset with your breeders, for that I am sorry but you are blaming the wrong place. You want to write about About Time and Pacifica, go for it... post your experience... there are many that have on multiple forums on FB and those that read their post or are warned off can easily google their names/kennels and read the issues that people have discussed in the past.

You said that the red flags only became apparent after the deposit was made, but you had to pay to read their contract... that would have been a huge red flag. A quick google search on their names/kennel names would have turned up some other issues as well that people have dealt with. That alone with a small amount of research would have had me looking elsewhere, but you paid for the contract, if you weren't happy with it you could have simply walked away. I put a deposit on a corso that was 11 hours away from me and we drove to get her, if she was not what I was promised when I got there or the dogs were not what I was looking for then I would have left without the puppy and counted it as a lesson learned... an expensive one but the hard ones are the ones that stick.

 

[Justin B.]

You have a financial motive for attempting to maintain the pretige of the AKC. The problem is that the pretige and value of AKC is based on the fact that the general public doesn't understand exactly what the AKC does and more importantly does NOT do.

I dont. I dont sell my dogs to first time owners or to people who dont understand how the papers work. Not as a snob thing. But for liability reasons.

Also, when I sell my dogs I sell them with the puppy registration cards and full breeding rights. I explain exactly how the papers and registries work. Just like I am taking my time and effort to explain it to complete strangers on the internet ....I definitely go the extra mile for and do more for anyone I sell a dog to. However, most of the people I sell to know exactly how the AKC works already.

Believe it or not the most expensive dog I ever sold is unpapered. The dog was trained and sold based on the training. The owner had no interest in the registry . So he never registered him. Just wanted a companion personal protection dog.

Their value is based off the factual things mentioned in the threads. Just because they are of no value to you doesn't make it the case for people who do this as a way of life.

Also, most breeders do not cheat the pedigree.

I actually think they are doing too much. After all their breeder of Merritt Advertisement is supposedly what caused this. I wish they didnt have that. But I dont know how vital that stream of revenue is for them.

 

[Annette Coleman]

The AKC has never put itself out there as more than a registry, this is why you have to have a BREED CLUB put the breed forward. They (the breed club) are responsible for the breed, the standard, and policies governing our breed.

You are upset with your breeders, for that I am sorry but you are blaming the wrong place. You want to write about About Time and Pacifica, go for it... post your experience... there are many that have on multiple forums on FB and those that read their post or are warned off can easily google their names/kennels and read the issues that people have discussed in the past.

You said that the red flags only became apparent after the deposit was made, but you had to pay to read their contract... that would have been a huge red flag. A quick google search on their names/kennel names would have turned up some other issues as well that people have dealt with. That alone with a small amount of research would have had me looking elsewhere, but you paid for the contract, if you weren't happy with it you could have simply walked away. I put a deposit on a corso that was 11 hours away from me and we drove to get her, if she was not what I was promised when I got there or the dogs were not what I was looking for then I would have left without the puppy and counted it as a lesson learned... an expensive one but the hard ones are the ones that stick.

I did do an Internet search before buying the dog. At the time there was nothing negative about the breeder out there. Also, About Time's website is misleading because she includes a contract summary that is so similar to other contract that I have seen that I mistook it for the actual contract. Laura told us essentially the same things you are saying about politics and personality. She also provided several references including one for whom she had replaced a pup. The difference between us and him is that he intended to title his dog in protection sports thereby enhancing her "Breeder of Merit" status.

Another MAJOR red flag is the she includes a clause voiding the contract if you badmouth her in the Internet and if the contract is voided she can repossess the dog. If the micrchip in our dog matched the contract , my daughter wouldn't let me post anything negative about Laura. Justin B. is mostly correct about me being upset about the "Breeder of Merit" designation. That and the repeated claim that AKC dogs are superior BUT ....

We almost walked away, but Laura is a good con artist. In conversation, she SEEMS to care about her dogs. We needed a dog asap because at the time my daughter was living with a proximate threat to her safety (in the person of an employee at her apartment complex whose mother was the manager ---we lost Xena because he poisoned her to remove a obstacle that prevented him from getting to her. New management - fired mom and predator. )

Our new dog had to be a female young enough to mesh witn 2 others dogs ( one male and one female). We couldn't find anything else so we gambled and lost. I just hope no one else makes the same mistake.