Cross over trainers

[SG1]

My apologies cinnamon roll. I miss interpreted your post on the Rot. Much respect to you and anyone else who has dealt with the type of dog you refer to and bring them around to there way of thinking.

 

[sjdavenport]

I do believe other methods can work with ower dogs. I had a female dogo that required very few corrections. She would have worked well with methods discussed here and would attack man or beast in a heart beat if provoked. No disrespect intended cinnamon rolll but the is not in the same league as many of the dogs on this forum. Lets compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. The problem is SGs aren't always born that way. With that in mind does the system work when the dog wants to eat the handler. The woman highlighted on this thread can't or won't show it. I want to see the people who claim to have a.new, kinder and gentler way prove it with a dog lime the TM in seasons post of Sean. Can I see the evidence instead of taking someone's word for it? Is this too much to ask for? Does their system keep unaltered dogs of the same sex from fighting while the owner is home or away? Does the system work on leash, off leash, amidst distractions? Again I ask is proof too much to ask for?I posted my work on this forum, Youtube and my web site for constructive criticism can the others do the same if they believe so strongly in there methods? I realize my definition of dog control is vastly different from most people and that the above example may be out of reach of most if not all trainers. If this is the case let's make these trainers define what they mean when they say their method works.

Exactly what sort of video evidence are you looking for? I have been taking online training classes through Denise Fenzi's (the trainer in question) school for the past 8 months. I agree with a lot of what she says, I utilize her training methods with my dogs at home. I have a cane corso, a pit bull terrier, and a Dane/boxer mix, two of which I have seen you refer to as superior guardians on the forum, so I assume they fit into the category of dogs you are specifically looking for? I don't claim to be 100% positive 100% of the time, but that doesn't mean I need to fall back on corrections either. I try hard to train and reinforce the things I want my dog to do, rather than correct them for the things I don't want them to do. I am certainly no stellar trainer, in fact, I'm pretty much a novice when it comes to advanced training or dog sports, but I'm not new to guardian breeds. Rhaegar is our third Cane Corso (in addition to numerous foster CCs), and all have responded well to primarily positive training. We have had up to 4 CCs in one home at a time without issue. I have watched your videos on your site and youtube (your dogs are beautiful by the way). If you want to see similar videos of my dogs home alone, unrestricted together, with high value chews and countless chew toys, I can provide that to you no problem. It's a daily routine here. No destruction, no squabbles. And none of these dogs originally came to me without issues. And just like your videos, they can eat and play together without issue. Do you mind posting videos of your dogs utilizing the degree of control you're describing? I'm just trying to figure out what you're looking for. I may not be looking in the right place, but I just see the videos of your dogs playing, being home alone, and eating together on your site. I may not be able to provide you with everything you'd like to see, but I can try! And I always have tons of room for improvement! Oh let's be honest, I just wanted an excuse to post a bunch of pics Lots of corso combos, no inter-dog problems!! No "harsh" training required:

 

[karennj]

If I remember correctly SG1 won't explain or show videos of his actual training methods as that is proprietary and reserved for paying customers only. I had asked because I was not clear on what methods SG1 actually uses.

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

Can I get a link to SG1 videos and site please? No excuses needed to post photos and videos lol. Specially when they are cute as Rhaegar! I haven't had issues with my personal dogs with counter surfing. I have had issues with trash digging though. I thought I had cured that. We had a tiny relapse a couple days ago though. Reason? Left my dogs at my mom's house and she has a small super easy trash can to get into, and Hank literally watched her put half a pizza in the trash just before leaving the house(a pizza minutes before that we had allowed them to eat some of). Needless to say the trash wasn't everywhere when we got back like it used to be, but the pizza was definitely missing. So no digging, simply removing what wasn't actually trash? lol

 

[sjdavenport]

Thankfully I don't have any problems with counter surfing or trash digging, or really anything at all while we're not home. We have very limited cabinet space in our duplex, so we have to leave a lot of things out on the counters (including dog treats). I'm also really bad about leaving a bag of chips or whatever I was snacking on on the end table next to my chair when I leave. They've never bothered it even though it's in easy reach for them. My cat on the other hand.....she's the worst scavenger ever. I need to go to cat training school! I believe this is his website: Superior Guardians LLC Dog Training

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

To be quite honest Hank learned his bad behaviors(trash digging, begging, fence jumping namely) at the neighbors house. They would pile trash outside and that's where he picked it up. It's been an easy fix and is safe at (our) home when we leave. I really think the seeing the pizza placed in the trash was too much for him to handle lol. He didn't want to be wasteful. Cool thanks for the link! We are servants to our cat. She only interacts with us when either she wants pet or wants us to follow her to "show us" what part of her room needs attention. She could prob teach you too. Oh wait, you want to train your cat and not the other way around? lol

 

[Hector]

Yes Glasgowdogtrainner I will react to BS. This is yet again another post/link to someone claiming to have a world of experience, who has been there and done that and can't prove a thing. The first thing I see on her web site is a Malinois, this dog is nothing more than a hyper active German Shepard. If you are going to tout someones abilities and or methods use someone who has trained serious Superior Guardian dogs with there methods and not regular dog like what ever Burrito in her videos is. Out of the thousands of dogs she claims to have trained she can't put one Tosa in a video, not one Dogo, not one Tibetan Mastiff to show her system works. Your post should be on a Malinois or any non-serious dog forum and not here.I read your back and forth post with mark in the thread Some dogs need harsh training. If your system works as well as you say post your work with a real serious dog and not ride someone else's jockstrap who can do any more than you can. Don't just talk abut it, be about it. Please everyone I want this to be constructive criticism, I want to push trainers and non trainers to the next level of dog control and IMOP what I see posted is not it.Remember anybody can say anything on the internet or this forum without proof, let's make them back up what they say.

Well I can't really post what you want because I am not a professional trainer, so that means people aren't just going to knock on my front door and ask me to fix their dog problems. With that being said I have heavily used positive reinforcement with lots of success with my fila. We didn't start with positive reinforcement. I was shown by an experienced schutzhund trainer the yank and crank method for anything you didn't like and wanted to extinguish. He believed in kneeing the dog hard to stop a dog from jumping. He told us about the hot stove analogy, but we didn't have those problems that he described. We had a puppy growling at strangers problem and so he told us not to be afraid to correct him hard and until he stopped so we did what he said. What it created was an insecure pup that was now more anxious than before and one who was not allowed to communicate vocally. He ended up not wanting to walk on a prong. He would shut down and lay there and that was the final time I would use a prong and researched other methods. I think if I was shown the correct way on how to use a prong and the proper foundation exercises, I would have had success. Anyway, I have tons of video on my dog doing recall: off leash in a large yard being reactive, off leash on a trail, off leash in a large field as a puppy. This dog also had resource guarding behaviors against me and my bf, but I used positive reinforcement to fix that. He can drop/back off on his raw meals when told. This dog can go from pulling and being disengaged back to heeling with a verbal cue. I'm not 100% positive, but the most I have to say is a NO and I will give leash corrections if I need to. A dog doesn't have to be a superior guardian to have severe behavioral issues just like not all superior guardians have superior guardian traits. Hell, recently on facebook there was a story of a boerboel being stolen. It's not fair to say a system doesn't work just because it doesn't make your superior guardian dog list. Again, these are not my videos, but there's proof out there that the positive reinforcement system does work. The list of trainers are positive trainers just looking at their credentials. Presa [video=youtube;hbdyQjN4MQg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbdyQjN4MQg[/video]

 

[Hector]

This board and train has over 500 videos and a person with common sense will know that all these dogs can't all the same personalities, but it shows that the system works on all of them. Black Russian terriers - maybe this video is a setup and these dogs didn't have any problems because there isn't a before video. Who knows, it's the internet. [video=youtube;HssLQEwc98A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HssLQEwc98A[/video]

 

[Hector]

Boerboel pup, but puppies are easy [video=youtube;r0CHdl3wbIU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0CHdl3wbIU[/video]

 

[Hector]

Great dane, oh wait not a sg. [video=youtube;lodEo5wV4DA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lodEo5wV4DA[/video]

 

[Hector]

This...is a central Asian shepherd. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. [video=youtube;Ia2JY-_5_Yw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia2JY-_5_Yw[/video]

 

[Hector]

must be training for ipo [video=youtube;_HVHKpu1AxE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HVHKpu1AxE[/video]

 

[Hector]

this looks like a cane corso mix maybe idk [video=youtube;LIhvfz65O-4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIhvfz65O-4[/video]

 

[SG1]

Good morning all. Let me start by saying that anything I post her is not said in anger or disrespect of anyone. Just think of it as a group of people having breakfast talking about one of our favorite subjects.Thank you for the complement sjdavenport, you have a great looking pack and puppy is to die for. I can not and will not disregard someone method of training. The only thing I ask if you are going to make the statements that glassgowdogtrainner about his systems over other is show that it works with a video of the dog obeying in difficult situations like the ones I described the above post. If Denise Fenzi is going to bost about her years of experience disregard other methods etc than show it working on a serious dog as I mentioned. I thank you for taking the challenge but it was ot directed at you just those people who think there methods are so much better than others. Since you have taken up he challenge I will say your pictures are nice with dogs that appear to be well behaved with each other. The real challenge of Ms Fenzi system is video of your pack in public on and off leash with distractions around and still behaving. Not stills of your dogs in your backyard. I also don't see any videos of you gone with toys laying around ether. Remember you asked for this critique.With regard to your particular breed of dogs yes the pit bull is an Superior Guardian IMOP of the highest caliber but you left out the rest of what I said. I also mentioned that the pit bull is easy to train be cause he wants to work. He almost asks you what do you want me to do next. Are there exceptions ? Most defiantly but in general they don't offer a great deal of resistance. IMOP this is why the Youtube trainers use pit-bulls so much, they rely on his reputation to impress the viewer who don't know abut his pliable nature. An example of this is a lady a friend of mine use to date had two neutered male pit bulls, nether more than three years old with no training provided by the owner. The dogs got along fine and never bothered him as a matter of fact she sprung the dogs on him the first time he visited he home. No introduction, she just let them out after he sat down. As far as the Cain Corso I personal am still on the fence as to weather he measures up. If I did put him in that category it was in error. Don't get me wrong I do not want to meet a Corso in any dark alley but if I had any one of my three dogs with me I wound not be worried about leaving said ally with an empty leash.Hector thank you also for your video post. If you read the above paragraph you know I am not that interested in the videos featuring the pits. I do look forward to seeing the Black Russian Terrie and what appears to be a white (LSGD). Just like sjdavenport my commits ar not aimed yu, just the loud moth people who deride anther persons way of doing things. There is nothing wrong with questioning a method but to dismiss it altogether just dosn't sit well with me. For those types of people I say walk it like you talk it and put SOME real dogs with REAL attitudes on display using their system. Let us see the dog under control in true to life situations.Yes karenj my methods are proprietary reserved for paying customers. Whenever I take my boys out I get complements on how well behaved they are which tells me everybody can't control there dog. A common question I get from people who have never heard of the types of dogs i have is do they fight? Or do I keep them separated? This tells me everybody can't do what I do. Leerburgh tells his clients not to kennel there dogs when they are not at home and not to leave toys on the floor and this from a professional with over twenty years of experience everybody cam't do what I do. A member responded to me in another thread and I'm paraphrasing, (Most people here can leave there dog home alone without a problem). I did 't say it then but I will say it now if you have multiple SGs and at least one wants to fight (the operative phrase here is wants to fight) then you have to train them not to fight. If they don't want to fight then a person has not proved anything with their method. There is no accounting for luck like the woman with the two pit bulls. She just did not get one that wants to fight and neutering or spaying dogs doesn't count. But to each his own, just don't attribute your success to any particular method. This is why my system is proprietary everybody can't do what I can do. Just a reminder none of what I just posted applies to non- trainers or behaviorist.

 

[Victoria93]

I lost it at the Alabai video, welcome to the internet lol.

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

IMO the only video that really did it for me was "Mastiff: Calming for Hyperactive Behavior". It's the only one where the dog actually exhibited the behaviors that the trainer was working to try and overcome. I can post videos of my dogs behaving on leash all day long. They aren't going to benefit anyone as they teach nothing. They do not attest to what degree these behaviors occurred (if at all) nor does it help provide a solution to fix it. Also about the toys. I could absolutely throw down a bunch of toys and leave them about and if my dogs weren't that interested in them they would have no qualms with sharing or not, proximity of other dogs etc. Used to be I put down a jolly ball and I engage Hank to play with it. No other dog will be allowed to touch that ball by order of pain and death. I started taking up the ball instead of allowing it to be out and controlling every engagement he had with the ball. I can now bring the ball out and allow clients dogs to play with it even with him around. The jolly ball problem became apparent before I actually even owned a jolly ball. He used to fight the neighbor dogs for control of the jolly ball so I bought some and started working with him on it. Before working with him on it. He would not even allow ME to take the ball from him. He was just fixated on the damn thing. Point is it's the motivation and the reinforcement(self or outside entity) of such behaviors that allow them to develop. It's work to train them out of those behaviors. Glasgow does have many videos on his methods both in theory and in practice. Just look him up on youtube. He has hours of content posted. I don't agree with all of it but it takes a lot of gusto for a trainer to show their methods and talk about them in a public format. It's easy to hide behind a veil of proprietary and secrecy and simply claim my methods work. Shaping a puppy's behaviors as it grows, and correcting an adolescents or adult dogs negative behaviors that have already been reinforced are two entirely different skill sets. I can't call myself a professional dog trainer. I can say that I have plenty of experience raising dogs and correcting behaviors in dogs that I've rescued. I have more respect for someone that shows their work and their mistakes than I do for someone that shows a well behaved dog and says I can make your dog do this. I'll share a video of a hyperactive dog that is 1.5 years old that is a client of mine through DogVacay. He was absolutely out of control when he came to me. I show how I teach him to walk on a loose leash with loads of real world distractions. I show my success and my mistakes. I'm very open to criticism and actually invite it. Like I said I'm not a professional trainer. I'm simply working with the dog because I have time to and the dog must learn certain manners in order to be allowed to live in my home and not in a crate.[video=youtube;xtQzOJsZB2I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtQzOJsZB2I[/video]

 

[sjdavenport]

I also don't see any videos of you gone with toys laying around ether. Remember you asked for this critique.

Here you go. Rhaegar (the corso) got a bully stick, Mazey (the pit) got a trachea, and Atlas (the mix) got a cow ear. Atlas is right out of the camera most of the time. All are high value chews in their eyes. I leave the house, but come back in immediately to grab a rain jacket, and then leave the house for good. This video is really unexciting, lol. But they each finish their chew at different time, and leave one another alone. Atlas also walks close by Rhaegar with no reaction. Rhaegar used to be a resource guarder. Unfortunately, I never took video of that before we worked on it. As you can see, we have lots and lots of toys down 24/7. Anyone who has seen Rhaegar's other threads know how much he LOVES his toys. My camera cut off after 30 minutes, so Rhaegar just chews his bully stick the entire time. I cut it down to just 7 minutes, because they literally don't do anything for the rest of the time. None of them are intact, so I'm sure you'll say they don't count, but I really don't think it has that big of an impact on behavior overall. I would also argue with you that a cane corso with a proper temperament is indeed a superior guardian. My replacement GoPro charger should get here in the mail any day now, so I will hopefully be able to get some video of my pack out and about. Remember, I am not a trainer, far from it actually, I just aim to have well behaved pet dogs trained in a gentle manner. [video=youtube;c_cqNF91vcg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_cqNF91vcg&edit=vd[/video]

 

[sjdavenport]

Oh, I should also say that the chihuahua is new. I've had her less than a month, and she hasn't earned roam of the house privileges yet. She gets her chew in an exercise pen.

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

Here's an example of a cross over trainer. I watched one of his old videos and his methods are much different these days.[video=youtube;GOW0IKO_zfM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOW0IKO_zfM&list=PLrMf9ok9yArctgwFkuY38aUs_YIb2ZUia&index=3[/video]

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

Glasgow Has a playlist on his youtube channel where he actually gets to spend some time interviewing Dr. Dunbar. It was a good watch. What an opportunity!