Hector's counter conditioning/ LAT - other dogs

[karennj]

I think with BAT if the dog is over threshold which he was when he stiffened up you still can redirect by calling him over, moving him back and getting back to that place of investigating his surrounding/freely moving about. Grisha Stewart (I believe she created BAT) talks about a mark and move which I think is more important in the real life situations like your encountering. Have you seen the survival guide? http://empoweredanimals.com/BAT-survival-skills.pdfI think your doing a great job!

 

[Hector]

I think with BAT if the dog is over threshold which he was when he stiffened up you still can redirect by calling him over, moving him back and getting back to that place of investigating his surrounding/freely moving about. Grisha Stewart (I believe she created BAT) talks about a mark and move which I think is more important in the real life situations like your encountering. Have you seen the survival guide? http://empoweredanimals.com/BAT-survival-skills.pdfI think your doing a great job!

Thank you! Yes, I know of Grisha's website and am part of the facebook group (though the group isn't very active). I have seen a lot of BAT videos and every one I watch is different lol. The best videos so far are by TheJmurphy05 and Glasgowdogtrainer on youtube. Jmurphy has more set up examples and Glasgow's are worked in real life distractions. Mark and move is what I try to do, but then I was told to wait for the dog to give a calming signal or move away before you move away so the dog is not pressured or influenced by me to move away, so I tried that and feel like that's not the way I'm going to do it. I need to do what works for us.

 

[karennj]

Yea, if it is not working then do something different. If you think there is a chance he may react then I personally think it is much better to distract by recalling or giving a command vs. letting him reinforce the bad behavior (reacting). At least just to create distance and then go back to freely moving around. He is so lucky he has you!

 

[Boxergirl]

I don't know if you've heard of it or if you're at all interested, but tawzer dog is a subscription website where you can watch seminars and videos. It's like a netflix subscription. You can purchase, rent dvds, or stream, but not all things are available for streaming. You can also get CE credits, so that's pretty cool.

 

[Hector]

I don't know if you've heard of it or if you're at all interested, but tawzer dog is a subscription website where you can watch seminars and videos. It's like a netflix subscription. You can purchase, rent dvds, or stream, but not all things are available for streaming. You can also get CE credits, so that's pretty cool.

I used to subscribe to bowwowflix. I might have to start it up again. Although most behavior stuff is really the same - counter conditioning, games, desensitization, train under threshold, train around distractions. I know they probably have Sean O" Shea's dvd included which I would be really interested in watching. Other than that, I might like any Michael Ellis new dvds they might have added.I'll take a look at tawzer's website.

 

[Hector]

Yea, if it is not working then do something different. If you think there is a chance he may react then I personally think it is much better to distract by recalling or giving a command vs. letting him reinforce the bad behavior (reacting). At least just to create distance and then go back to freely moving around. He is so lucky he has you!

Yes, that's the way that makes the most sense to train.

 

[Hector]

Today was a huge success! There were so many dogs and off leash dogs, but there were lots of space and no one tried to come over. I walked gimpy on the grass to make it easier on his joints. We walked for about 30 mins. Right out of the car there was a man and his dog walking towards their car. Hector sees them at 11 secs. We were going to be on our way and the man warns me about how he had to fend off two off leash dogs that tried to attack his. I don't know why I had to tell him about the ultimate air can lmao. I guess I can't get over how well it works and I'm kind of awkward. Just look at how many times he looked and disengaged and then looked some more while I was occupied and he remained calm the whole time. [video=youtube;LGOwUM-6BAA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGOwUM-6BAA[/video]

 

[karennj]

Love the first glance and then look away. It is hard to really see his body language with your hands flailing around, LOL but he looks relaxed with ears forward. What air can are you using? Like a fog horn? I need to get one to carry but the small one I got was not very good quality. When I was looking at deterrents I also saw mention of a spray that is supposed to be good. I probably should get both for when I hike in case we run into a bear.Then you have this thing, LOL[video=youtube;Hy8_y3QjicI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy8_y3QjicI[/video]

 

[Hector]

Well that's not a bad idea, but usually the person would have one hand occupied with the leash lol.

I have the pet convinver. This one trainer calls it Cesar Milan in a can. If you are going to get one, get a can of air for bike tires. The bike one is half the price of the pet one. The damn line is always tangled when we first get out lol.

Perhaps watch the video again in slow motion in .5 speed. Here are the times he glanced and looked away. 21 secs, 26, 30, 34, 36, 42, 46, 48, 51, 53, 54. It's easier to see in slow mo.

 

[karennj]

Oh yes, I saw the engage and disengage. Was just trying to see what his body was doing but it looked like he was pretty relaxed. He seems to be really well.

 

[karennj]

I never realized there was a speed setting in the player!

 

[Hector]

I never realized there was a speed setting in the player!

AND you can slow down or speed up your own video after you've uploaded it. The video is going to be slowed down 2x after the editing is done and I am sounding like a demon, hilarious.

 

[Hector]

He got in a bit of conflict with himself. Wanted to look, but was afraid of a correction. Then he started whining - excitement or stress? [video=youtube;DzIdP752Z7s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzIdP752Z7s[/video]

 

[Hector]

Ha, met a couple of familiar faces today. Remember the man that warned me about loose dogs? Well we met again! I knew his dog was pretty calm so it was time for a test! I got some footage of his Hector's reaction that started this thread. I guess he doesn't generalize well. I guess I'd rather have avoidance than reactive and of course I was playing with my new toy. [video=youtube;J6MVuckxvTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6MVuckxvTE[/video]

 

[karennj]

He got in a bit of conflict with himself. Wanted to look, but was afraid of a correction. Then he started whining - excitement or stress? [video=youtube;DzIdP752Z7s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzIdP752Z7s[/video]

At first I see stress. The moment he first notices the dog he immediately goes into avoidance. He does not look to you the first time which makes me think his instinct of seeing another dog is stress related and he is not avoiding because he knows he is not supposed to or because he knows food is coming. He lip licked, dropped his body and immediately went into avoidance with no reinforcement or connection with/to you. He reengages again but quickly avoids as well and that is when I see him doing some awesome check in's with you. He still is concerned about the dog and wants to keep an eye on it but also wants to look away. His behavior reminds me of someone watching a horror movie, they don't want to watch but they can't not look either. He looks at the dog interested and then it is like something kicks in and his ears/head drops and he goes back into avoidance. He deff has conflict but I love how he is appropriately disengaging instead of reacting. The whining at the end I think is a combination of everything that built up during those few seconds, He is not sure what else to do and wants his food! LOL

 

[karennj]

Ha, met a couple of familiar faces today. Remember the man that warned me about loose dogs? Well we met again! I knew his dog was pretty calm so it was time for a test! I got some footage of his Hector's reaction that started this thread. I guess he doesn't generalize well. I guess I'd rather have avoidance than reactive and of course I was playing with my new toy. [video=youtube;J6MVuckxvTE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6MVuckxvTE[/video]

There is that lip lick again, hehe. I do think he is unsure of how to act, and yes, I would rather have avoidance vs. reactive. I know you have been working a lot on the LAT and BAT, and it shows with his constant check in with you which I think is great. I wonder if there is something you can do to help minimize that internal conflict he has when he sees the dog to when he gets the reinforcement from you. I believe your giving the "good" to reinforce the fact that he is continuing on with you and not reacting but he is still in that state of conflict. I wonder if he needs more direction than LAT offers? Maybe some focus exercises so he feels more confident about his behavior around other dogs? He reminds me of the awkward teenage boy who was dragged onto the dance floor by his girlfriend and doesn't really know what to do there. I know, I need to stop with the analogies....
Holy crap, we have icons again???? I tried to put one in but no idea if it actually worked.

 

[Hector]

At first I see stress. The moment he first notices the dog he immediately goes into avoidance. He does not look to you the first time which makes me think his instinct of seeing another dog is stress related and he is not avoiding because he knows he is not supposed to or because he knows food is coming. He lip licked, dropped his body and immediately went into avoidance with no reinforcement or connection with/to you. He reengages again but quickly avoids as well and that is when I see him doing some awesome check in's with you. He still is concerned about the dog and wants to keep an eye on it but also wants to look away. His behavior reminds me of someone watching a horror movie, they don't want to watch but they can't not look either. He looks at the dog interested and then it is like something kicks in and his ears/head drops and he goes back into avoidance. He deff has conflict but I love how he is appropriately disengaging instead of reacting. The whining at the end I think is a combination of everything that built up during those few seconds, He is not sure what else to do and wants his food! LOL

Oh yes, he was definitely stressed and conflicted. All I wanted to do was stand back and watch, but he was struggling so I started giving him feedback. I'm not sure if he was looking back and forth and was expecting food because of the LAT work or if he was worried of a correction. It was probably both and that messed with his head.

 

[Hector]

There is that lip lick again, hehe. I do think he is unsure of how to act, and yes, I would rather have avoidance vs. reactive. I know you have been working a lot on the LAT and BAT, and it shows with his constant check in with you which I think is great. I wonder if there is something you can do to help minimize that internal conflict he has when he sees the dog to when he gets the reinforcement from you. I believe your giving the "good" to reinforce the fact that he is continuing on with you and not reacting but he is still in that state of conflict. I wonder if he needs more direction than LAT offers? Maybe some focus exercises so he feels more confident about his behavior around other dogs? He reminds me of the awkward teenage boy who was dragged onto the dance floor by his girlfriend and doesn't really know what to do there. I know, I need to stop with the analogies.... Holy crap, we have icons again???? I tried to put one in but no idea if it actually worked.

He is a big time lip licker!! He's a very anxious, nervous dog in general and stresses out very easily. A lot of times he stresses himself out. The lip lick on the recall is different from the lip lick when passing the other dog. In almost every recall video, he does the lip lick. I think it may be a sign of submission?? I know the lip licking during the pass is definitely stress. I was just thinking about some focus exercises. I don't know how else to communicate that it's okay to look/acknowledge, but not be an ass? He's too sensitive. He needs to get over it.

 

[karennj]

You are doing such a great job with him, honestly. I don't know any other owner that works so much with their dog. Really, he is so lucky he has you! As far as communicating to him, that is a difficult one. On one hand he is looking and not acting out but on the other hand he still has so much conflict over the presence of the other dog. I am glad to see he is making the right choices. His focus back to you shows how much you have worked with him. Do you use the good when he is looking at the dog? I remember hearing it after he checked back in with you but can't remember if you use it for watching and not reacting as well? I wonder if you can beat the clock and give him that positive reinforcement before he slides in the anxious mode. Have you done any group type classes ever with him? I know you work with him often around other dogs on your walks because of the videos but I wonder if doing something like agility with other dogs around would be a good confidence builder for him. I would also work on giving him a job when outside and he is getting anxious by another dog.

 

[Hector]

You are doing such a great job with him, honestly. I don't know any other owner that works so much with their dog. Really, he is so lucky he has you! As far as communicating to him, that is a difficult one. On one hand he is looking and not acting out but on the other hand he still has so much conflict over the presence of the other dog. I am glad to see he is making the right choices. His focus back to you shows how much you have worked with him. Do you use the good when he is looking at the dog? I remember hearing it after he checked back in with you but can't remember if you use it for watching and not reacting as well? I wonder if you can beat the clock and give him that positive reinforcement before he slides in the anxious mode. Have you done any group type classes ever with him? I know you work with him often around other dogs on your walks because of the videos but I wonder if doing something like agility with other dogs around would be a good confidence builder for him. I would also work on giving him a job when outside and he is getting anxious by another dog.

Thank you very much!

No, I haven't used the good marker when he looks at other dogs as I don't want him to think it was okay to just look at other dogs. I only praise when he looks back at me. Hmm..how strange does that sound lol. "I don't want him to think it's okay to look at other dogs", yet I'm trying to get him to understand that it's okay to look at other dogs. Bah! The reason I don't want him to think it's okay to look and look is because the stimuli might intensify in his brain and that's when things can get ugly BUT not always. I will try to praise him when he looks at other dogs. (This was actually in Ian Dunbar's growl class that I'm enrolled in through Udemy thanks to you and he encourages owners to praise their dog for looking) I am thinking he will be looking for food when I do that. I actually thought of a place I could take him.. A local foster lady has 10 dogs at her house that has free access of the house and yard. This could go either way.