Need advice!!

[OdinBB]

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[Hiraeth]

Would they be willing to take Odin, I can't pay for training but if they are experienced with dog aggression and will NOT adopt him to a family. If they are willing to take him on and keep him for themselves, I would absolutely give Odin to them. Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

I'm really glad you feel this way, OdinBB.

If you bring Odin back into your home, you are risking the life and welfare of your children. If Odin seriously harms your child again for a third time (between the resource guarding and this latest attack), criminal charges of child abuse or endangerment can be brought against you for keeping a known dangerous dog in your home. I very much feel that it is endangerment to ever allow Odin access to your children again.

I agree, if you can relinquish Odin to the trainer and they will keep him forever, then that's maybe an acceptable alternative. But he should never be rehomed with a "normal" dog owner or into a "regular" household again, in my opinion.

 

[OdinBB]

Wow he is extremely expensive

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[season]

Yes thank you Season, I called and was not able to talk to him. I am going on the website now to complete the contact for and see what he says.

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You're welcome. Yes, fill out whatever needs to be filled out. He and his staff can and will take on any dog. They will also help u and your family. They don't worry about the dog. They worry about the owners and want to make sure they are committed to changing. They can help your dog but they can't help u and your family if you aren't truly willing. Action. It's up to u.


"Today is victory over yourself of yesterday."
- Miyamoto Musashi

 

[Hiraeth]

A lot of trainers who work with these extreme cases can and do charge exorbitant prices for their time, partly to cover liability costs and partly because they plain just can. There aren't a lot of them out there, their knowledge is specialized and in high demand, and they have the advantage of providing services to people who have nowhere else to turn.

 

[teodora]

OdinBB - I live in NZ, if all your local options fail I can try to contact someone here.

 

[Hiraeth]

You're welcome. Yes, fill out whatever needs to be filled out. He and his staff can and will take on any dog. They will also help u and your family. They don't worry about the dog. They worry about the owners and want to make sure they are committed to changing. They can help your dog but they can't help u and your family if you aren't truly willing. Action. It's up to u.

Your insistence that this dog can return to OdinBB's home after training and "rehab" simultaneously frustrates and frightens me. Your insinuation that the only thing stopping this from working is OdinBB's or her family's 'willingness to change' is downright insulting. And entirely 100% wrong.

There are many factors that indicate that this situation is a no-go. So many that I can't name them all, but here's a short list - the dog has attacked a child twice, once while guarding and once viciously and unprovoked, the dog had to be dragged away from the child, the dog is now quarantined in a high stress and traumatic environment, neither the humane society vet nor OP's private vet will touch the dog, the dog has also attacked another dog...

Putting guilt on OdinBB and insinuating the situation is fixable if she decides to "change" is... Well, there really aren't words for it. It's wrong, simply put.

 

[OdinBB]

Please contact some there, Odin doest have a lot of time. If I can't find anything I will have to put him to sleep.

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[Hiraeth]

Also, simply logistically speaking, no commercial airliner will fly an aggressive dog. If you don't disclose the fact that the dog is aggressive and it attacks someone, you are 100% liable, OdinBB.

 

[OdinBB]

Thank you

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[teodora]

Hiraeth, thak you for persistence: I simply have a different opinion even if you think Odin should be just not given a chance. I am flying a lot back and forth and yes, they do take registered and vaccinated dogs (airlines). OdinBB - I'll contact someone here today, please send me his photos and let me know what shots he had - teodora.m@expertbuyer.co.nz, thank you. Who was his breeder, in case they ask?I suppose you don't want any money for him, or do you? Thanks.

 

[Hiraeth]

Thank you

No problem. I think you are getting some inaccurate and just plain wrong advice here, which is the only reason I have stuck around this long.

I don't think you deserve guilt trips, or "if you're willing to work, you can make it work" chats, or "it's your fault" talks.

I think you are in a desperate and sad situation, and it sounds like you have done everything you can, and a lot more than most people would do after a dog viciously attacked their child. While the events leading up to this circumstance are unknown, I think you have acted like both a good mother and a good dog owner throughout the trauma of this ordeal.

So no guilt trips or pep talks from this side of things. Just facts when I can provide them and sympathy when I can't.

 

[OdinBB]

Thank you Hiraeth

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[season]

Your insistence that this dog can return to OdinBB's home after training and "rehab" simultaneously frustrates and frightens me. Your insinuation that the only thing stopping this from working is OdinBB's or her family's 'willingness to change' is downright insulting. And entirely 100% wrong.

There are many factors that indicate that this situation is a no-go. So many that I can't name them all, but here's a short list - the dog has attacked a child twice, once while guarding and once viciously and unprovoked, the dog had to be dragged away from the child, the dog is now quarantined in a high stress and traumatic environment, neither the humane society vet nor OP's private vet will touch the dog, the dog has also attacked another dog...

Putting guilt on OdinBB and insinuating the situation is fixable if she decides to "change" is... Well, there really aren't words for it. It's wrong, simply put.

Ok. I can't make anyone feel guilty just like I can't make u feel frustrated or frightened. That's a choice you make. Not me. I gave her some advice and even contacted Jeff personally on her behalf. I'm trying to help just like u are. You think it should be put down and I don't. You can feel anyway u want. Not to mention, I'm not talking to you. If you want to keep at me feel free to PM me. I'm here.


Carpe Diem

 

[Hiraeth]

Hiraeth, thak you for persistence: I simply have a different opinion even if you think Odin should be just not given a chance. I am flying a lot back and forth and yes, they do take registered and vaccinated dogs (airlines). OdinBB - I'll contact someone here today, please send me his photos and let me know what shots he had - teodora.m@expertbuyer.co.nz, thank you. Who was his breeder, in case they ask?I suppose you don't want any money for him, or do you? Thanks.

I think Odin was given a chance after he bit OdinBB's daughter the first time. I think the second chance was given when he attacked another dog and was still kept. I think this was his third strike. He's a multiple incident biter, and a large, powerful dog.

*shrug* I've said what I need to say. My last piece of advice is this - OdinBB, if you find someone to take Odin from you, I would highly suggest you have a legal contract drawn up by a lawyer who has worked on dog bite cases that will remove *any* responsibility for his actions from you. Sign it, have it notarized, have whoever you are giving him to sign it and have it notarized. Have copies. Keep copies of all of your conversations. Make sure you have multiple documents you can use to back you up if Odin attacks someone else and they come after you for the damage he causes. Anything Odin does while he is your dog is your responsibility, so if you surrender him to a rescue or trainer, so make it very clear that they aren't "fostering" him until a trainer is found, but that they officially OWN him, and that you have given up all legal rights.

This paperwork will not 100% protect you, of course. But it will perhaps minimize the damage, as far as a lawsuit is concerned. You will still need to afford a lawyer to defend you and pay court costs, but this paperwork may end up being the thing that keeps you out of jail for negligence if Odin attacks someone after you give him up. Your family is already losing a dog, and it would be horrible if they lost you to jail time as well, or if you got hit with massive restitution payments. Please just make sure that all of your legal bases are covered.

 

[Hiraeth]

Ok. I can't make anyone feel guilty just like I can't make u feel frustrated or frightened. That's a choice you make. Not me. I gave her some advice and even contacted Jeff personally on her behalf. I'm trying to help just like u are. You think it should be put down and I don't. You can feel anyway u want. Not to mention, I'm not talking to you. If you want to keep at me feel free to PM me. I'm here.

I don't want to "keep at you". I think you're giving bad advice. Since you're a teacher, I think you must like kids, at least some of the time. And from lurking on this forum and reading your posts, I think you're a reasonable, responsible dog owner. And I think if this was your children at risk, or if it was your children who were frightened, you wouldn't be bringing the dog back into your home.

Those are all assumptions, of course, and I could be very wrong. I like to think that any educator or parent out there would do anything in the world to keep the children they work with and love safe and comfortable.

 

[teodora]

LOL.OdinBB, yes it's a good idea to keep a copy of the documents. since the dog is not yours anymore, no responsibility and no obligations from your side from the moment the dog is "received". Anyone who ever made a contract knows it. We can also discuss incoterms if you want. Contracts is what I do for a living, so I can assist here.Nevertheless, I wait for the info from you and hopefully I'll be back with an answer today.

 

[Hiraeth]

LOL.OdinBB, yes it's a good idea to keep a copy of the documents. since the dog is not yours anymore, no responsibility and no obligations from your side from the moment the dog is "received". Anyone who ever made a contract knows it. We can also discuss incoterms if you want. Contracts is what I do for a living, so I can assist here.Nevertheless, I wait for the info from you and hopefully I'll be back with an answer today.

Contracts can be considered void if one of the signees is determined to be negligent, which would be a breach of the terms of the contract. If, in a court case, OdinBB was found to be negligent in relinquishing this dog to someone else, no contract is going to save her from fines, or if he kills someone, jail time.

This is exactly why shelters and rescues don't rehome aggressive dogs. Technically, when I adopt a dog, I sign a document that states I am the owner and responsible for the dog's actions. BUT, if that dog is to attack and kill someone in my care, the shelter can be deemed negligent for adopting the dog out in the first place and held liable for the dog's actions.

 

[teodora]

ps: I also try to help. I do it on my time which I can otherwise dedicate to my child or dogs. I'm very happy OdinBB doesn't hate her dog. I'm surprised that others, without any involvement, do. I'm surprised that an "aggressive dog rescuer" is so emotional about it that doesn't even consider a professional evaluation before deciding to put down such a powerful dog who did a scratch. I'm not a specialist but I've seen big dogs "full loaded" and if Odin was stopped, it's because he was stoppable. I truly believe he doesn't deserve a death sentence. I am, however, very aware of how scary these dogs can look. And I would honestly prefer a "scary" dog from an aggression point - because looking and acting scary is a warning. I definitely consider an owner who can't trust his/her dog can't keep it. I hope I will be able to find someone to get him - in the meantime, if anyone can also continue to source locally, please do. NZ is a small place, I'm sure there are many more chances in US or Europe, but it happens that I'm here so I'll try the best I can.

 

[teodora]

H - at no point we were discussing shelters, pounds or so. Also, consider NZ and international law pls.