Severe Human Agression Help Needed

[Duetsche_Doggen]

OP I would serious invest in a trainer but thanks for giving this girl a good home. Sounds like she's with a good person.

OT about the tails I remember seeing this on National Geographic. I forget the name of the program air but they had an excerpt about tails. Here's a link that explains more
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ail-wags-really-mean-some-new-scientific-data

 

[DennasMom]

I hope you and the dog catcher can come up with a good plan.
His having two CC's of his own should be a big help.

One thought - watch to find out what 'drive' she operates in (prey, pack, fight, flight), and see if you can figure out ways to switch her to a more rewarding one - it sounds like Pack drive is her comfort zone. When you find out what makes her tick (and what makes her "not-tick"), hopefully she'll let go of her anxiety and just relax.

Which makes me think...just brainstorming here... do you have a command for "relax"? When you're home in her favorite place, can you pet her calmly and put a name to that activity? Then, when you're out somewhere and getting close (but not too close) to a trigger, try and get her back in that frame of mind with the 'command'? (someone with real dog psychology/training/know-how please chime in if this would work or not). Just a thought...

Another thought - and another question for the dog experts here - how do you get your dog to trust you? Is that something you can "train"? When you have a dog from day 1 (<~12 weeks), I would think it should just happen naturally, assuming you're a good leader. But, what about when you adopt an older dog? Are there specific things you can do to build trust? When there is a higher level of trust, I would think that would be a big help in convincing the dog that the triggers are nothing to worry about... and then they would be able to hear and comply with a "leave it" command...

Again... I'm just brainstorming. So, take it for what it's worth.
Good luck! I'm glad she has you!

 

[ruthcatrin]

Another thought - and another question for the dog experts here - how do you get your dog to trust you? Is that something you can "train"? When you have a dog from day 1 (<~12 weeks), I would think it should just happen naturally, assuming you're a good leader. But, what about when you adopt an older dog? Are there specific things you can do to build trust? When there is a higher level of trust, I would think that would be a big help in convincing the dog that the triggers are nothing to worry about... and then they would be able to hear and comply with a "leave it" command...

Its a process of "things" rather than one specific. It helps if you resemble someone the dog trusts, which I kinda wonder is what happened with the OP here, since the dog appears to have taken to him right away. Giving the dog a stable place to relax into, with consistancy as much as possible, and patience to work your way through everything, goes a long way towards getting the dog to be more accepting. From there it varies with the individual dog, and what they're driven by.

---------- Post added at 12:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 PM ----------

Tail language: http://abbyk9.fotki.com/downloads/educational/dogspeak/dog-speak-014.html

 

[ruthcatrin]

Tail language: http://abbyk9.fotki.com/downloads/educational/dogspeak/dog-speak-014.html

(note: doesn't work for curled tail dogs like the TM)

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

I hope you and the dog catcher can come up with a good plan.
His having two CC's of his own should be a big help.

One thought - watch to find out what 'drive' she operates in (prey, pack, fight, flight), and see if you can figure out ways to switch her to a more rewarding one - it sounds like Pack drive is her comfort zone. When you find out what makes her tick (and what makes her "not-tick"), hopefully she'll let go of her anxiety and just relax.

Which makes me think...just brainstorming here... do you have a command for "relax"? When you're home in her favorite place, can you pet her calmly and put a name to that activity? Then, when you're out somewhere and getting close (but not too close) to a trigger, try and get her back in that frame of mind with the 'command'? (someone with real dog psychology/training/know-how please chime in if this would work or not). Just a thought...

Another thought - and another question for the dog experts here - how do you get your dog to trust you? Is that something you can "train"? When you have a dog from day 1 (<~12 weeks), I would think it should just happen naturally, assuming you're a good leader. But, what about when you adopt an older dog? Are there specific things you can do to build trust? When there is a higher level of trust, I would think that would be a big help in convincing the dog that the triggers are nothing to worry about... and then they would be able to hear and comply with a "leave it" command...

Again... I'm just brainstorming. So, take it for what it's worth.
Good luck! I'm glad she has you!

I believe training helps the dog "understand" and allows human and dog to establish a good relationship/bond. However for trust to me the best remedy is time. My thoughts are the same but it would depend on what the dog is having problems adjusting to.

 

[taisa899]

She's scared of almost everything. My Mom lives in a city and during the day when I take her out she does her business and then goes straight to the door and stands there waiting to go in. At night when the city slows down I take her out for walks around the block and she doesn't do too bad till a car drives by and then she wants to pull me home

 

[diverdan169]

Here are my 2 cents. The dog is a dangerous liability. At her age I cannot see her being re-trained. I have no doubt the dog is great with you but is it worth the chance of her severely injuring someone? Why would you want a dog that behaves so predictably-agressive? A dog you cannot control? In fact she is a lawsuit waiting to happen. I would not hesitate to euthanize her asap. Good luck!

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

OP I would seriously consider an animal behaivorist. Without seeing how the dog reacts its hard to make an assement, it sounds like fear agression. You need to find someone that can work with both of you.

 

[Robtouw]

I hate peope that automatically go to euthanize her, instead of working it out. 9 times out of 10 there is a way to correct the behavior,its just a matter of learning how to do it. How does she react to people approaching her crate when you are not there? How bonded to you is she?

 

[diverdan169]

Wait a minute. Here are the facts as stated by Taisaa899. BTW I give him alot of credit for trying! He has had the dog for 1 1/2 years and the dog has been like this since day one. Two different trainers tried & then refused to work with the dog. What other choices are there? I guess a tall fence could be erected. But Robtuow "...hates when peope automatically go to euthanize her, instead of working it out." seems to me she has tried alot to correct the behavior and nothing has changed. Not all dogs can be trained and not all dogs are compatible companions. That is just nature. In my experience this is a very dangerous situation and consider this--is this dog an example of a stable Cane Corso? No she is not! There is most likely the reason why she was at the shelter in the first place. Most likely the last owners could not bare to euthanize her and hoped that someone could rehabilitate her. So if this dog is as agressive as descibed and if no training has worked then why take a chance with what seems to be a dangerous dog? I hate it when owners of unstable-dangerous dogs fail to recognize that euthanasia is the kindest choice for both dog and the potential bite victims. Why so many Americans now a days seem to be unwilling to cull dogs like this is why we have so many behavior disparitys across a multitude of dog breeds. Is it a coincidence that many cities / counties have banned certain breeds of dogs? No! These breed specific laws were passed to protect the public from the serious harm of a dog attack by a breed who can easily maim or even kill. Sadly, very often, irresponsible owners failed , did not know and or had no regard for the extra responibility that comes with owning breeds like these. Those of us who live in the NYC-metro area see first what the pitbulls& pitbull hybrids can and often do to innocent bystanders. There is a moral obligation to ensure the public' is safe form dangerous dogs. There is a greater responibility on the owner's part when you own breeds like a Cane Corso, Pitbull, Rottie, GSD, Filas et al. Irresponsible owners who fail to take the proper steps to ensure that their powefull breed of dog is well trained, mentally stable and under their control at all times and is a good representation of their breed are very often the root of the problem. These breeds deserve to have the best k-9 ambassadors. I will conclude with this example. There is a GSD trainer here my area who put on a demonstration of his dogs' protection abilities at the park in his town. Two intact 3 & 4 year old male GSD's were allowed too circulate among the crowd of spectators as if they were relaxed golden retrievers looking for a tennis ball. When he gave the command to protect him from the man in the bite suit the dogs ran through the crowd and did their job. When it was over the dogs returned to their relaxed demeanor. Is this simply training? No it is genetics also. The best dog I ever owned was a Doberman-GSD mix whom we adopted from the pound. She was a natural family protector and excellent companion. A dog doesn't need to be a purebred to be a good dog but it needs to be well balanced and even tempered. I thank you all for reading my post.

 

[ruthcatrin]

But the dog's not in a position now to bite anyone. Taisia has made it clear that huge steps have been taken to avoid exposure where biting might take place once he realized the extent of the problem. He has also indicated that he has no problem spending time and money to do what has to be done to keep her from being in that position. Therefor there is time to explore the options and ensure that she has a happy life.

And frankly I totally agree, unless you personally know the dog, you do not have the POV required to determine if the dog should be put down or not.

 

[chuckorlando]

Just like a NYer to push their "save your from your self" perspective onto folks. I had no idea pits were such monsters up there. All kinda unstable huh? Has nothing to do with the dogs in question being raised a certain way? The only dog on your short list that are known to inherently have issues with humans is the fila. I'd venture to say that all most all attacks from any other breed, including them nasty evil unstable pitts, has more to do with environmental than any thing else. I own an aggressive dog. As do alot of folks on this board. Who the hell are you to say that aint ok? If what you mean is you shouldn't have one if you aint prepared, I agree. But then who the hell are you to tell someone else what their ready, able, and willing to do? I for one wouldn't put down the dog just because I have to work out, or even around aggression. If it aint towards me it's not that bad to work around. I like to think I have a little experience in this area.And your story has nothing to do with the price of tea in china. That was a foolish situation to begin with stable dog or not. I just really dont like nothing about your post.

Wait a minute. Here are the facts as stated by Taisaa899. BTW I give him alot of credit for trying! He has had the dog for 1 1/2 years and the dog has been like this since day one. Two different trainers tried & then refused to work with the dog. What other choices are there? I guess a tall fence could be erected. But Robtuow "...hates when peope automatically go to euthanize her, instead of working it out." seems to me she has tried alot to correct the behavior and nothing has changed. Not all dogs can be trained and not all dogs are compatible companions. That is just nature. In my experience this is a very dangerous situation and consider this--is this dog an example of a stable Cane Corso? No she is not! There is most likely the reason why she was at the shelter in the first place. Most likely the last owners could not bare to euthanize her and hoped that someone could rehabilitate her. So if this dog is as agressive as descibed and if no training has worked then why take a chance with what seems to be a dangerous dog? I hate it when owners of unstable-dangerous dogs fail to recognize that euthanasia is the kindest choice for both dog and the potential bite victims. Why so many Americans now a days seem to be unwilling to cull dogs like this is why we have so many behavior disparitys across a multitude of dog breeds. Is it a coincidence that many cities / counties have banned certain breeds of dogs? No! These breed specific laws were passed to protect the public from the serious harm of a dog attack by a breed who can easily maim or even kill. Sadly, very often, irresponsible owners failed , did not know and or had no regard for the extra responibility that comes with owning breeds like these. Those of us who live in the NYC-metro area see first what the pitbulls& pitbull hybrids can and often do to innocent bystanders. There is a moral obligation to ensure the public' is safe form dangerous dogs. There is a greater responibility on the owner's part when you own breeds like a Cane Corso, Pitbull, Rottie, GSD, Filas et al. Irresponsible owners who fail to take the proper steps to ensure that their powefull breed of dog is well trained, mentally stable and under their control at all times and is a good representation of their breed are very often the root of the problem. These breeds deserve to have the best k-9 ambassadors. I will conclude with this example. There is a GSD trainer here my area who put on a demonstration of his dogs' protection abilities at the park in his town. Two intact 3 & 4 year old male GSD's were allowed too circulate among the crowd of spectators as if they were relaxed golden retrievers looking for a tennis ball. When he gave the command to protect him from the man in the bite suit the dogs ran through the crowd and did their job. When it was over the dogs returned to their relaxed demeanor. Is this simply training? No it is genetics also. The best dog I ever owned was a Doberman-GSD mix whom we adopted from the pound. She was a natural family protector and excellent companion. A dog doesn't need to be a purebred to be a good dog but it needs to be well balanced and even tempered. I thank you all for reading my post.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Hey, I'm in NY!

(not the City though, thankyougod)

 

[chuckorlando]

No offense to you. ahahahahaha. The south pushes "our moral's" the north "save you from your self", The west is just off their rocker. ahahahaha

 

[dogman#1]

Here are my 2 cents. The dog is a dangerous liability. At her age I cannot see her being re-trained. I have no doubt the dog is great with you but is it worth the chance of her severely injuring someone? Why would you want a dog that behaves so predictably-agressive? A dog you cannot control? In fact she is a lawsuit waiting to happen. I would not hesitate to euthanize her asap. Good luck!

2 cents? keep the change. A dog that is "predictably agressive" is WAY easier to control than a dog that is unpredictably so, you know the "Oh my God, she never did that before" dog/owner. BTW I'm a New Yorker and I live in NYC (Staten Island)

 

[taisa899]

Wait a minute. Here are the facts as stated by Taisaa899. BTW I give him alot of credit for trying! He has had the dog for 1 1/2 years and the dog has been like this since day one. Two different trainers tried & then refused to work with the dog. What other choices are there? I guess a tall fence could be erected. But Robtuow "...hates when peope automatically go to euthanize her, instead of working it out." seems to me she has tried alot to correct the behavior and nothing has changed. Not all dogs can be trained and not all dogs are compatible companions. That is just nature. In my experience this is a very dangerous situation and consider this--is this dog an example of a stable Cane Corso? No she is not! There is most likely the reason why she was at the shelter in the first place. Most likely the last owners could not bare to euthanize her and hoped that someone could rehabilitate her. So if this dog is as agressive as descibed and if no training has worked then why take a chance with what seems to be a dangerous dog? I hate it when owners of unstable-dangerous dogs fail to recognize that euthanasia is the kindest choice for both dog and the potential bite victims. Why so many Americans now a days seem to be unwilling to cull dogs like this is why we have so many behavior disparitys across a multitude of dog breeds. Is it a coincidence that many cities / counties have banned certain breeds of dogs? No! These breed specific laws were passed to protect the public from the serious harm of a dog attack by a breed who can easily maim or even kill. Sadly, very often, irresponsible owners failed , did not know and or had no regard for the extra responibility that comes with owning breeds like these. Those of us who live in the NYC-metro area see first what the pitbulls& pitbull hybrids can and often do to innocent bystanders. There is a moral obligation to ensure the public' is safe form dangerous dogs. There is a greater responibility on the owner's part when you own breeds like a Cane Corso, Pitbull, Rottie, GSD, Filas et al. Irresponsible owners who fail to take the proper steps to ensure that their powefull breed of dog is well trained, mentally stable and under their control at all times and is a good representation of their breed are very often the root of the problem. These breeds deserve to have the best k-9 ambassadors. I will conclude with this example. There is a GSD trainer here my area who put on a demonstration of his dogs' protection abilities at the park in his town. Two intact 3 & 4 year old male GSD's were allowed too circulate among the crowd of spectators as if they were relaxed golden retrievers looking for a tennis ball. When he gave the command to protect him from the man in the bite suit the dogs ran through the crowd and did their job. When it was over the dogs returned to their relaxed demeanor. Is this simply training? No it is genetics also. The best dog I ever owned was a Doberman-GSD mix whom we adopted from the pound. She was a natural family protector and excellent companion. A dog doesn't need to be a purebred to be a good dog but it needs to be well balanced and even tempered. I thank you all for reading my post.

The reason for her being at the shelter was not agression!!! Her previous owner died from cancer and she spent 3 days in the house with him before he was found.

 

[Mooshi's Mummy]

Wait a minute. Here are the facts as stated by Taisaa899. BTW I give him alot of credit for trying! He has had the dog for 1 1/2 years and the dog has been like this since day one. Two different trainers tried & then refused to work with the dog. What other choices are there? I guess a tall fence could be erected. But Robtuow "...hates when peope automatically go to euthanize her, instead of working it out." seems to me she has tried alot to correct the behavior and nothing has changed. Not all dogs can be trained and not all dogs are compatible companions. That is just nature. In my experience this is a very dangerous situation and consider this--is this dog an example of a stable Cane Corso? No she is not! There is most likely the reason why she was at the shelter in the first place. Most likely the last owners could not bare to euthanize her and hoped that someone could rehabilitate her. So if this dog is as agressive as descibed and if no training has worked then why take a chance with what seems to be a dangerous dog? I hate it when owners of unstable-dangerous dogs fail to recognize that euthanasia is the kindest choice for both dog and the potential bite victims. Why so many Americans now a days seem to be unwilling to cull dogs like this is why we have so many behavior disparitys across a multitude of dog breeds. Is it a coincidence that many cities / counties have banned certain breeds of dogs? No! These breed specific laws were passed to protect the public from the serious harm of a dog attack by a breed who can easily maim or even kill. Sadly, very often, irresponsible owners failed , did not know and or had no regard for the extra responibility that comes with owning breeds like these. Those of us who live in the NYC-metro area see first what the pitbulls& pitbull hybrids can and often do to innocent bystanders. There is a moral obligation to ensure the public' is safe form dangerous dogs. There is a greater responibility on the owner's part when you own breeds like a Cane Corso, Pitbull, Rottie, GSD, Filas et al. Irresponsible owners who fail to take the proper steps to ensure that their powefull breed of dog is well trained, mentally stable and under their control at all times and is a good representation of their breed are very often the root of the problem. These breeds deserve to have the best k-9 ambassadors. I will conclude with this example. There is a GSD trainer here my area who put on a demonstration of his dogs' protection abilities at the park in his town. Two intact 3 & 4 year old male GSD's were allowed too circulate among the crowd of spectators as if they were relaxed golden retrievers looking for a tennis ball. When he gave the command to protect him from the man in the bite suit the dogs ran through the crowd and did their job. When it was over the dogs returned to their relaxed demeanor. Is this simply training? No it is genetics also. The best dog I ever owned was a Doberman-GSD mix whom we adopted from the pound. She was a natural family protector and excellent companion. A dog doesn't need to be a purebred to be a good dog but it needs to be well balanced and even tempered. I thank you all for reading my post.

I have a serious problem with your posting as would a lot of other members here I think. Number 1 we don’t know that the trainers that have been tried are the correct type of trainer to deal with and assist this issue. This is a very specific fear that is occurring and not every trainer is equipped with the correct knowledge on how to fear with fear based aggression and certainly not in this breed. This dog sounds to me like it has been through the mill and back and has fallen lucky to find Taisaa who would rather call out for help then go ‘oh well I tried, didn’t work so I have to kill you’. Let me tell you, and I know this for fact, the majority of dogs CAN be and are helped, and what is required from the start is a knowledgeable trainer who is experienced with this type of behaviour that can and will work with the animal and its family.

I know of a trainer here in the UK that does AMAZING work with level 3 dogs, these are dogs that are on death row because of a number of factors, the main being irresponsible ownership and it is believed the dogs are aggressive and cannot be rehabilitated, he has proven this to be a load of rubbish! He saved his Rottie from death row in France a number of years ago. No one could get near this dog, it had grown in to its chain which needed to be surgically removed and the vet or kennel staff couldn’t get near him to help him…they couldn’t clean his kennel or even walk him. No one could get in and no one could get out. You know what, his Rottie is now a Pets as Therapy dog! So please don’t tell me that this dog, or many like him need to be put down!

What he needs is to be understood and his behaviour corrected.

And if you don’t believe me about the Rottie here is the link to James web site. I know this man personally, the work he does is amazing, I have seen it with my own two eyes. http://www.jamesconroy.co.uk/about_james_conroy_dog_behaviourist.html

Have a look on face book at Iron Mountain Rescue, this is another organisation that I respect. They take so called ‘dangerous dogs’ and they work hard with them to rehabilitate them. Do these dogs find stable and loving homes? Oh yeah they do. Have these dogs been considered aggressive? You bet they have! Can they be helped, YES. Did they deserve the start in life they got? NO! Do they deserve to live a happy and joyful life surrounded by love? YES! Would it have been the easy way out to just kill them? You bet, but that is not what being a responsible dog owner is about. Dogs are not disposable, like people they have problems, some of them more serious than others but given the CORRECT type of help and love they can overcome these problems to become a stable member of society.

 

[diverdan169]

I responded to a question from Jim. I did not insult anyone, demean them or stereotype them based on the state they live in. However, the responses to my 2nd post 31-37 prove my point-when does re-training, re-evaluation, chance after chance, let's find another trainer odyssey end and reality set in not just in Jim's situation but in many other similar situations?

 

[ruthcatrin]

You mis-represented the dog, the dog's situation, how Jim aquired the dog, and then stated that he should seriously consider killing the dog.....and the answer is that if the dog can be kept in a situation where its not a danger to people, and as it stands its not, then it can be kept just fine as it is. How do you think Fila owners manage their dogs? Fila's are HIGHLY non-family aggressive, and it has nothing to do with socialization or training. And yet we have several folks on this board who manage them just fine.

If YOU couldn't thats fine, you know your limits, but to insist to someone else that killing the dog is the only solution is incredibly close minded.

 

[joshuagough]

Good link their with James Conroy.. very insightful information.

I have a serious problem with your posting as would a lot of other members here I think. Number 1 we don’t know that the trainers that have been tried are the correct type of trainer to deal with and assist this issue. This is a very specific fear that is occurring and not every trainer is equipped with the correct knowledge on how to fear with fear based aggression and certainly not in this breed. This dog sounds to me like it has been through the mill and back and has fallen lucky to find Taisaa who would rather call out for help then go ‘oh well I tried, didn’t work so I have to kill you’. Let me tell you, and I know this for fact, the majority of dogs CAN be and are helped, and what is required from the start is a knowledgeable trainer who is experienced with this type of behaviour that can and will work with the animal and its family.

I know of a trainer here in the UK that does AMAZING work with level 3 dogs, these are dogs that are on death row because of a number of factors, the main being irresponsible ownership and it is believed the dogs are aggressive and cannot be rehabilitated, he has proven this to be a load of rubbish! He saved his Rottie from death row in France a number of years ago. No one could get near this dog, it had grown in to its chain which needed to be surgically removed and the vet or kennel staff couldn’t get near him to help him…they couldn’t clean his kennel or even walk him. No one could get in and no one could get out. You know what, his Rottie is now a Pets as Therapy dog! So please don’t tell me that this dog, or many like him need to be put down!

What he needs is to be understood and his behaviour corrected.

And if you don’t believe me about the Rottie here is the link to James web site. I know this man personally, the work he does is amazing, I have seen it with my own two eyes. http://www.jamesconroy.co.uk/about_james_conroy_dog_behaviourist.html

Have a look on face book at Iron Mountain Rescue, this is another organisation that I respect. They take so called ‘dangerous dogs’ and they work hard with them to rehabilitate them. Do these dogs find stable and loving homes? Oh yeah they do. Have these dogs been considered aggressive? You bet they have! Can they be helped, YES. Did they deserve the start in life they got? NO! Do they deserve to live a happy and joyful life surrounded by love? YES! Would it have been the easy way out to just kill them? You bet, but that is not what being a responsible dog owner is about. Dogs are not disposable, like people they have problems, some of them more serious than others but given the CORRECT type of help and love they can overcome these problems to become a stable member of society.