this is my first whelping

[Mamie2shoes]

oh soooooooooooo cute!!!!! I envy the puppy breath and cuddles

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

they haven't been tested beyond ordinary checks by my vet

i asked about extensive tests and was told that no vets around here do those

No vet would do the Hips/elbows, Like OFA or PennHIP? That seems odd.....

I don't know what common issues plague the EM but I know the GM its dilated cardiomyopathy/bloat/hips/elbows/eyes ( especially in this breed )

 

[futureowner]

No vet would do the Hips/elbows, Like OFA or PennHIP? That seems odd.....

I don't know what common issues plague the EM but I know the GM its dilated cardiomyopathy/bloat/hips/elbows/eyes ( especially in this breed )

I agree Duetsche, what kind of vet doesn't know how to draw blood, do a xray or anything like that, that's all the tests consist of and then you send them into the proper testing place, its all on CHIC there are a lot of tests to be done with EM's before breeding responsibly! In addition to everything you mentioned, tack on CMR testing and PRA DNA testing, those are just as important as the normal hips/elbows/etc.......

Here is a list :

[h=1]Mastiff[/h] (search)

[h=3]Hip Dysplasia[/h]

• OFA Evaluation - OR
• OVC Evaluation

[h=3]Elbow Dysplasia[/h]

• OFA Evaluation - OR
• OVC Evaluation

[h=3]Eye Clearance[/h]

• CERF evaluation - Minimum age 24 months

[h=3]Congenital Cardiac Database[/h]

• OFA Evaluation

[h=3]Autoimmune thyroiditis (Optional)[/h]

• OFA evaluation from an approved laboratory

[h=3]Cystinuria (Optional)[/h] Urine Test PennGen -recommend minimum testing age of 18 month

 

[Kelly]

I did not know there was a site you could go to that would show you what health testing should be done prior to breeding. That's actually really helpful. Thanks for posting that.

 

[Oak Hill Farm]

And it is constantly changing, so keep checking. For instance, I was talking to a few boerboel breeders and there is evidence that glaucoma is starting to become more prevalent in the breed. There is a veterinary board where registered vets can log cases into a system and see what breeds are trending for what. through this they found an increasing number of eye issues in the breed.

It also depends on breeders as well. You want to make sure they are testing for things, even extras not on the list in case new issues pop up. The OFA is now certifying bites/detention per a movement from the Rottie club. My breeder asked that we have our dogs complete this just to show how the CAS is trending.

 

[dujac]

I agree Duetsche, what kind of vet doesn't know how to draw blood, do a xray or anything like that, that's all the tests consist of and then you send them into the proper testing place, its all on CHIC there are a lot of tests to be done with EM's before breeding responsibly!

when i asked the vet if they did the tests i was told that i would have to go to lsu for that

it's hours away in another state

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

when i asked if they did the tests i was told that i would have to go to lsu for that

it's hours away in another state

They aren't always offered close but testing for at least the most likely conditions in your breed you should be willing to travel for and then search out dog shows in your area as there tend to be lots of clinics offered at shows in the US that I am sure you can get to.

 

[dujac]

you should be willing to travel for and then search out dog shows in your area…

sorry, i'm not able to do that and i don't want to go to any dog shows

i have animals here at home that need taking care of

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

sorry, i'm not able to do that and i don't want to go to any dog shows

i have animals here at home that need taking care of

Sorry that is just an excuse and I didn't say show your dogs (although that would be nice to prove they are least meet standard), having AKC pedigrees and champions in the lines doesn't mean a whole lot these days on their own, but they do offer health clinics at most shows at a very cheap rate so you would not have to travel as far and could get the health testing done on your animals.

Then why breed your dogs? We all have lives, other animals that need taking care of, kids, etc but it doesn't stop us from trying to do what is best.

 

[Smart_Family]

Sorry that is just an excuse and I didn't say show your dogs (although that would be nice to prove they are least meet standard), having AKC pedigrees and champions in the lines doesn't mean a whole lot these days on their own, but they do offer health clinics at most shows at a very cheap rate so you would not have to travel as far and could get the health testing done on your animals.

Then why breed your dogs? We all have lives, other animals that need taking care of, kids, etc but it doesn't stop us from trying to do what is best.

This. Good breeders make sure they get the testing done, regardless of how inconvenient it may be.

 

[Jadotha]

@ Dujac,

I was typing whilst BlackShadow was already posting expressing my thoughts as well. I think Gracie is very pretty, and the puppies are absolutely adorable, but what genetic legacy are they bringing into the world. This litter is already on the ground, and it sounds as if you are being diligent in lining up good homes for them. But have you provided contracts with health guarantees against genetic defects; have you included clauses in the contracts that specify if, under any circumstances, an owner is unable to keep a puppy you will take it back? Have you read some of the heartbreaking stories on the forum about breeders taking back puppies and being forced to make life or death decisions about their futures?

I say this not to be critical, but doing the testing others have recommended -- as inconvenient as it may be -- really helps to stack the deck in your favour and that of your puppies and puppy buyers, and may prevent a great deal of heartache.

If this litter was a 'one off', then it is water over the dam and a non-issue. Congratulations on your extended family! However, if you are planning to develop a breeding programme, I would urge you to find a knowledgeable and experienced mentor, do at least the essential health testing of both parents, identify your breeding goals -- what your program is going to uniquely contribute to the breed -- and learn about genetics.

Best of luck!

 

[dujac]

Sorry that is just an excuse…

no, it's the truth

Then why breed your dogs?

because i want a puppy from grace and my neighbor wants one from her male

is that ok with you?

Good breeders make sure they get the testing done, regardless of how inconvenient it may be.

what about people that aren't breeders or show dog enthusiasts?

what genetic legacy are they bringing into the world?

when they mature i'll let you know how they turn out, but

for all you know, the dog in the photo may save her owner's life

 

[Smart_Family]

what about people that aren't breeders or show dog enthusiasts?

Are you saying this was an oops litter? If so I hope you take the precautions to avoid another one. If not, then you are a breeder and really need to make the effort to get the testing done.

 

[BlackShadowCaneCorso]

what about people that aren't breeders or show dog enthusiasts?

Then I ask again why breed? There are tons of mastiffs in shelters and rescues looking for good homes.

If Smart is right and it is an oop litter then it is what it is but if you intentionally bred them what is your reasoning that doesn't put you in the same category of a BYB that is only in it for the $$$?

 

[bullyBug]

what about people that aren't breeders or show dog enthusiasts?

I don't understand the question. Do you mean the people breeding or the people buying?

 

[dujac]

I don't understand the question. Do you mean the people breeding or the people buying?

i mean me, one litter doesn't make a breeder

do you think i shouldn't be able to have a litter of puppies from my dog?

lolita 2002

Are you saying this was an oops litter?

no i'm not, i dreamt it up a decade ago, decided to do it five years ago and planned it a couple of years ago

sire, dam and litter are akc registered, all their tie ups were supervised by me

grace was born in august 2009, any more questions?

grace and grover on a mating date - march 2012

Then I ask again why breed?

because i want my dog's puppy

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

Meaning like a hobby breeder, those that breed for themselves. At least that's my impression. Could be wrong though.

 

[dujac]

Meaning like a hobby breeder, those that breed for themselves. At least that's my impression. Could be wrong though.

you're wrong

and i'm kind of new here, but is this the way you all treat new forum members?

i didn't come here to be attacked and at this point, testing has nothing to do with helping me provide the best care to my dogs

i came here to get constructive input that can help make a difference to my dogs



for example:

i feel like i need to get more fat in grace's diet

she's been getting cottage cheese, olive oil or eggs over her kibble

what else would be good sources of fat?

lolita in the louvre - 2000

 

[bonesnsasha]

because i want a puppy from grace and my neighbor wants one from her male

is that ok with you?

You know you could of put your own dogs life at risk breeding her? That's a horrible reason to breed a dog yeah I've wanted puppies from almost every dog I've had but I've never bred them. It's not the logical things to do these puppies could end up in a shelter now as well as possibly having medical conditions that your's and the other person's dog may have that you didn't know about because you didn't do the testing. I say they could end up in a shelter because I doubt you are even doing proper examination of who you are giving these puppies to! You said earlier you've spoken with many people about the breeding of your dog obviously you haven't no good breeder would of told you to even go through with it without having the testing done.

I guess this just pisses me off because we lost our bulldog because of a breeder like you when it could of been prevented from the dog having genetic problems if the people would of taken the time to have the parents examined properly.


Sorry I had to get my rant in there. That comment just ticked me off. I'm sure you love your dog but did you ever think maybe breeding them together to get a puppy for you and the other person was a dumb idea?

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

Dujac, no one was attacking, trust me when I say this that this forum is nice compared to others out there, you'd think they were the breed police. There is nothing wrong with a hobby breeder and sometimes they can do more for the breed than those that show,work, title, etc so long as they have a constructive goal in mind, but they do test their "stock."

I just thought it was odd that a vet wouldn't do a test. Anyway take care.