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American Mastiff x shar pei

Jadotha

Jadotha

Well-Known Member
srmorris,

Please have a look at the AM Family Forum site, and look at the Kangal thread by Giorgio. I would repost it here, but I don't have permission.

Dogman, I respect your views and knowledge, but (unless I have missed something, which is entirely possible), you don't have expertise in EMs, Ams, SharPeis,or Anatolian Shepherds. I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong. :)

I do believe she has been caught up in a larger issue.
 
ruthcatrin

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Jadotha said:
I agree -- if they were not going to pursue AKC recognition, I think the best option may have been their own registry. OTOH, I was surprised to learn (as I said) that a number of working breeds -- Border Collies, several of the 'gun dogs', and so on opted for the CKC. I would point out that many of our mastiff breeds have only recently been AKC recognised; for example, the Cane Corso was just recognised in 2010. The AM was eligible and met the criteria for beginning the journey a couple of years ago, but elected not to -- for reasons stated. So it wasn't as if they were refused.
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I don't have a problem with their refusal to join the AKC, I really don't, and they are by no means the only breed I know of who's done that. I know of at least one who's fought it tooth and nail more than once too.

First of all, we are not talking about a 50 -50 proposition. The founder says 1/8 Anatolian. Whilst I have a bit of an issue about how she arrived at that estimation -- as I don't believe she is a geneticist -- it means fairly small infusion of Anatolian genes. Also, I know what the breed descriptors say, but I have searched for owners of Kangals -- which appears to be the original Anatolian contributor -- to 'interview'. Their comments depict an intelligent dog who is very loving and protective of their family and 'dependents' -- be they sheep, goats, children or neighbors. Additionally, if anyone watched the documentary on preserving cheetas through introducing Kangal to protect flocks in Namibia, they will do the minimum necessary to drive away the threat.
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Its not that Kangals and Anatolians can't be great family dogs, its that LGDs DO NOT handle like other breeds, and the crosses I've met have usually had a full helping of THAT temperment.....If its really only 1/8th or so then maybe its far enough back that its less of an issue, but the addition of sharpei in this case makes me cringe.
 
Smokeycat

Smokeycat

Well-Known Member
srmorris87 said:
She didn't say not to socialize her, she just said she didn't with her female. The male was socialized like crazy, he was just a big sweet heart.

And just b/c my dog isn't AKC recognized, or comes from a reputable breeder (she didn't mean for her dog to get pregnant... It was her first heat), doesn't mean she is not a real mastiff. It's rude to say she's not. And if that's how people are on this forum I don't think this is the right place for me.
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To be honest she's not a mastiff, which technically is a purebred EM, she is a mastiff mix. This is a fact if you choose to take the American mastiff as a breed or not. She has 2 or 3 breeds in her and as such her behavior and physical self can be a combination of all of those breeds.
I have an Irish setter 50%/golden Retriever 50% mix. Both physically and mentally he is almost pure setter. The only way I know this is I read everything I could about both breeds and then comparing him to the standards and stories I could get from owners of purebred dogs of both breeds and a few that had the same mix. That's the best advice I can give you, learn the standards (particularly the behavioral parts) of all three established breeds. That can at least give you a basis for anything that you should watch out for or expect as she matures.
Congratulations on your puppy.
 
D

dogman#1

Well-Known Member
You know i will! lol. I am no expert in any of those dogs but I am VERY Familiar with quite a few breeds ESPECIALLY livestock guardian and all working breeds. With that said the anatolian is NOTHING like an EM and that "breed" made up of EM and Anatolian that is advertised as "the same as an EM with a drier mouth" is very misleading. If it does in fact have anatolian in it then it has the possibility of being more then just a little dangerous, add a lil sharpei in the mix and you now have an even bigger issue. Sharpeis are not just lil wrinkly puppies... they are usually very dog aggressive and pretty protective as well (BTW I always like the original sharpei.."bone mouth"). I have been around plenty of working dogs to know my way around quite a few breeds.
 
ruthcatrin

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
srmorris87 said:
She didn't say not to socialize her, she just said she didn't with her female. The male was socialized like crazy, he was just a big sweet heart.

And just b/c my dog isn't AKC recognized, or comes from a reputable breeder (she didn't mean for her dog to get pregnant... It was her first heat), doesn't mean she is not a real mastiff. It's rude to say she's not. And if that's how people are on this forum I don't think this is the right place for me.
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Stop being so defensive and go re-read the posts. No one said your pup's not a mastiff. Though if I suppose you want to get technical about the genetics involved she's technically less than 1/2 mastiff, but thats hardly a disqualifier to the term. You got caught up in an argument over the AM. Folks here have a HUGE HATE for BYBs who create fancy "breeds" by crossing whatever set of dogs sounds cool and selling them for huge prices without thought to health testing or temperment or the sorts of homes required for the type of dog. The AM is a new enough breed that they tend to get lumped in with that, though I don't personally think its an entirely correct designation. We shouldn't have taken over your thread with the discussion, but I'll warn you that you're likely to get that sort of response pretty much where-ever you go, so decide how you're going to deal with it now.

I'm glad to hear that she wasn't advocating lack of socialization. Please do NOT assume that just because your pups mother wasn't socialized and was still a sweetheart that you can do the same with this pup. I wasn't kidding about the need to socialize socialize and socialize more with these breeds. And that goes for all 3 breeds involved in the makeup of your pup. If your pup's mother really is completely unsocialized her owner is INCREDIBLY lucky, that's plain and simple fact. Even the EM (the mildest of the three breeds involved) can be extremely aggressive if not socialized properly.

Am I reading your intro thread correctly that you got the pup at 6 weeks?
 
Smart_Family

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
I don't particularly care whether people consider the American mastiff a breed or not. As Ruth said though, many of us do have issues with bybs especially those who are mixing breeds that probably shouldn't be mixed.
 
D

dogman#1

Well-Known Member
Me neither, just dont mislead the people. tell them the truth of what they are getting into and the possibilities as far as tempermanet. IMO if you want to cross any millions of breeds together because you have a vision then by all means go for it, just dont mislead folks.
 
Smart_Family

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
dogman#1 said:
Me neither, just dont mislead the people. tell them the truth of what they are getting into and the possibilities as far as tempermanet. IMO if you want to cross any millions of breeds together because you have a vision then by all means go for it, just dont mislead folks.
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Thanks dogman for elaborating better than I did post nap haha
 
srmorris87

srmorris87

Well-Known Member
Shar pei's are considered a mastiff breed. Just fyi. They are also known to be great family dogs. I did my research :)

Shelly seems to have the calm cuddly mastiff temperament. She gets little spurts of energy and runs in circles, it's pretty funny.
 
srmorris87

srmorris87

Well-Known Member
My little Shelly girl!

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Smart_Family

Smart_Family

Dog Food Guru
No one said anything against sharpei's either. And mixing one mastiff with another still makes a mastiff mix. We don't discriminate here, heck we have members who don't even have dogs or have dogs that aren't any sort of mastiff. There's really no need to be so defensive.
 
srmorris87

srmorris87

Well-Known Member
I actually got her at 4 weeks... Mom abandoned them and the lady I got her from said that mom tried to eat one, and the vet said it was ok to rehome the pups b/c they were eating solid food (which I called to verify this information).
 
ruthcatrin

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
srmorris87 said:
Shar pei's are considered a mastiff breed. Just fyi. They are also known to be great family dogs. I did my research :)
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Hate to burst your bubble but Sharpei's aren't mastiffs. And while they CAN be great family dogs they take a shit load of work to be so....
 
D

dogman#1

Well-Known Member
srmorris87 said:
Shar pei's are considered a mastiff breed. Just fyi. They are also known to be great family dogs. I did my research :)

Shelly seems to have the calm cuddly mastiff temperament. She gets little spurts of energy and runs in circles, it's pretty funny.
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No they arent mastiffs... This may be a part of your issue... you arent getting good information where you are looking. The Sharpei is definately NOT the first thing that comes to mind when talking about good family pets at all. who ever told you this is either a maniac or an awesome handler that loves a challenge.
 
srmorris87

srmorris87

Well-Known Member
dogman#1 said:
No they arent mastiffs... This may be a part of your issue... you arent getting good information where you are looking. The Sharpei is definately NOT the first thing that comes to mind when talking about good family pets at all. who ever told you this is either a maniac or an awesome handler that loves a challenge.
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Um... Various books, and websites. They have to be trained like everyother dog.
 
srmorris87

srmorris87

Well-Known Member
Jadotha said:
srmorris,

Please have a look at the AM Family Forum site, and look at the Kangal thread by Giorgio. I would repost it here, but I don't have permission.

Dogman, I respect your views and knowledge, but (unless I have missed something, which is entirely possible), you don't have expertise in EMs, Ams, SharPeis,or Anatolian Shepherds. I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong. :)

I do believe she has been caught up in a larger issue.
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You are the nicest person on this post, you aren't trying to make me feel like I'm an idiot who knows nothing about dogs, and you aren't saying she's not a mastiff. Thank you :)
 
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