EMs Are Worthless Guardians??

[Smokeycat]

Thats a fact Smokey

Ok I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. I wasn't talking about a dog actually guarding I was simply saying that if someone is looking for an easy target, random not deliberately chosen, a loud dog regardless of size is going to have more of a deterring effect then the 200lbs dog that doesn't bark.

 

[Laurie]

IMO it depends on the dog; not the breed (for the most part).. Some small dogs go all out w/ aggression....some large dogs are wimps. My rottie was VERY socialized and friendly...he would have let anyone break in my house and take what they wanted (if I wasn't home)...but he was extremly protective of me.... I got pulled over by a police officer for speeding one time and I thought he was going to bust out the window to attack the officer.(Not all dogs need to be tested). Thank goodness he was understanding...he just told my dog that he was doing a good job protecting me and he let me go....
My 10 month old EM is coming into her own....she is starting to bark at strange noises etc...I do not want her to be aggressive at all, only protective of family ....don't care about material posessions...

 

[chuckorlando]

I agree with you. A big bark is the most important aspect of home security as it will deter 99% of any crime from strangers.Second would be a big show

Ok I'm not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me. I wasn't talking about a dog actually guarding I was simply saying that if someone is looking for an easy target, random not deliberately chosen, a loud dog regardless of size is going to have more of a deterring effect then the 200lbs dog that doesn't bark.

It only depends on the dog not the breed in breeds that dont have it in them. Some breeds are simply designed to protect and any thing less than full on attack is a fault above all else. These are the breeds you would buy if you were looking for a true protection dog. Rotti's are not one of them. Other breeds you would buy for trained protection as they are designed better for comands and call off easier. Some breeds you buy for pets and might get lucky and find a one thats strong.

 

[BradA1878]

Generally speaking, just like with humans, the dog/person who makes the most noise is not the one to worry about... it's the silent ones who we'll put the hurt on you. You known how the saying goes... "quiet dog bites hard" there is a lot of truth in those words.

 

[Kelly]

yeah that may very well be true. Tess and the pugs r the ones who make alot of noise around here, but Jovo who js silent is the one who will put u in the hospital with a bite.

 

[Gunny]

I have no idea whether Gunny would attack, but I know he'll go full alert in a split second and that's all I could ask for. I don't believe relying on a dog to protect me or my family is responsible.

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

Got you Brad silent but deadly.....

 

[CeeCee]

This is a great discussion!

Zeke's got the intruder bark and growl (if it's a man, lunge) down, but I'd like to have more control over the call off -when I tell him, I want him to stand down. Any suggestions or resources on how to train/fine tune this? Most of my friends are not dog savvy and I my concern is that they'd be afraid. Zeke is young enough and is still learning about the world so that there is still a fair amount of fear based reaction in him. (We were very concerned about a bronze statue we encountered on a walk yesterday. )

 

[chuckorlando]

Hey, in his defense, bronze is a very sneaky metal.

 

[Jadotha]

First, I detest sweeping generalisations (all X are like/do Y: all X always/never do Y)), as well. Usually the 'truth' of a situation is complex and multifaceted, with a lot of variability. Many people tend to generalise from their own anecdotal experiences. As others have commented, there seems to be a lot of diversity in interpretation of proper "Guarding' and 'protecting' behaviours. I know absolutely nothing about Bandogs, except what I've read on this and other forums, and watched on YouTube. I've formed impressions, but I would not even consider making generalisations about them. My own experience with Boris (EM) is that I am quite convinced he would protect me. When we go for walks, he is always 'on alert', assessing our surroundings. If he sees something/someone he thinks looks fishy, he will move in front of me and stand at full attention, puffing out his chest. He will not move until he decides or I assure him the something/someone is not a threat. This is what I want/expect from him. He began this behaviour at around nine to ten weeks.

Related to his protectiveness,I had a bit of a chuckle, though. Boris is exceedingly fond of my Grandson (3 mths). When we are baby sitting, he spends every minute lying/sitting beside him. He gets quite upset when the baby begins to cry, and has actually got adept at licking his face in a way that calms him down. Anywhoo.... my Grandson HATES having his diaper changed. When I begin freeing the tape and the baby starts screaming, Boris will put his mouth around my wrist and try to gently pull my hand away.

 

[Duetsche_Doggen]

I do have habit of generalizing some things, but generally , I consider most dogs, unless trained or specifically breed for that trait, are just a deterrent, some more out spoken than others.....*cough* Ruger *cough*

People make a habit of interchanging words without understanding their meanings, which can make assessments difficult. For example people who inquire which is the best "guard" dog, I believe any dog is a "guard" dog.(deterrent)

As far as "protection" dogs I find that in itself to be an entirely different category.

 

[chuckorlando]

x2

 

[BradA1878]

Generally speaking, just like with humans, the dog/person who makes the most noise is not the one to worry about... it's the silent ones who we'll put the hurt on you. You known how the saying goes... "quiet dog bites hard" there is a lot of truth in those words.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that a dog who gives a good display / warning bark isn't helpful in a guarding situation. I was just pointing out that just because a dog doesn't give a big display doesn't mean he/she will not protect you.

It all goes back to testing, if you want to know for sure that your dog will protect you, you should hire a good decoy to come and put some pressure on him/her and see how he/she responds.

In reality, everyone loves to talk about how their dog will protect them, and even people with PP trained dogs do this, but when push comes to shove there are very very few dogs who will actually step-up and take the pressure of a real threatening scenario to give a solid "man stopping" bite. This applies to all breed and all dogs - even the Fila.

Now, when you add to that a dog being "green" and not conditioned to the pressure of an attacker, the chance of your dog protecting you, no matter the breed or the dogs behind them, is very very very very low.

If this wasn't the case, and all these guardian breeds would protect the way the breed descriptions say they would, then there would be no need for these tests to exist and it would be easy to breed and produce working PPDs - but that's just not the case - breeders of PPDs go through dog after dog looking for the right ones to use for their program and rarely do they find one they are 100% happy with. Ya know?

 

[Rugers-Kris]

Ruger said "Who, Me?" LOL

I do have habit of generalizing some things, but generally , I consider most dogs, unless trained or specifically breed for that trait, are just a deterrent, some more out spoken than others.....*cough* Ruger *cough*

People make a habit of interchanging words without understanding their meanings, which can make assessments difficult. For example people who inquire which is the best "guard" dog, I believe any dog is a "guard" dog.(deterrent)

As far as "protection" dogs I find that in itself to be an entirely different category.

 

[chuckorlando]

I agree 100% Even after being tested, you still only have a theory because that test does not include your dog being hurt in return like most real world situations. Even a fila

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that a dog who gives a good display / warning bark isn't helpful in a guarding situation. I was just pointing out that just because a dog doesn't give a big display doesn't mean he/she will not protect you.

It all goes back to testing, if you want to know for sure that your dog will protect you, you should hire a good decoy to come and put some pressure on him/her and see how he/she responds.

In reality, everyone loves to talk about how their dog will protect them, and even people with PP trained dogs do this, but when push comes to shove there are very very few dogs who will actually step-up and take the pressure of a real threatening scenario to give a solid "man stopping" bite. This applies to all breed and all dogs - even the Fila.

Now, when you add to that a dog being "green" and not conditioned to the pressure of an attacker, the chance of your dog protecting you, no matter the breed or the dogs behind them, is very very very very low.

If this wasn't the case, and all these guardian breeds would protect the way the breed descriptions say they would, then there would be no need for these tests to exist and it would be easy to breed and produce working PPDs - but that's just not the case - breeders of PPDs go through dog after dog looking for the right ones to use for their program and rarely do they find one they are 100% happy with. Ya know?

 

[Tiger12490]

It just atleast for me comes down to what the dogs have been bred for its not really a generalization its just kind of how things work.....labs are better duck hunters than rottweiler because thats what they where bred for...APBT or AMBULL are better at hog hunting than poodles because they where bred for that....most modern dogs have little protection instinct because they havent been bred for it...like I said there are some that will show up come game day....most wont...shoot I hope my pup who was bred for it will..and a pomeranian is a great guard dog but I guess I was talking more of the physical aspect

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[Arkitek]

My EM Zeus used to be a big ole baby and scared of everything. But since 1+ years old, hes randomly shown many protective traits. When strange people or lights (at night) come towards me he makes sure to stand in front of me and his hair stands up along his back as it always does when he gets defensive or worried. Another good instance was when a friend walked into my house as I told him to but I had forgotten and was in the shower. Zeus ran up and assumed according to my friend, the scariest stance hes ever seen and started barking in full force...I ran out knowing what was going on and the second I showed up and yelled his name, Zeus completely stopped and just walked up and licked my friend. He also tends to stand over me on the bed if he senses anything abnormal sometimes and then lays next to me for a while. Zeus is the biggest baby in the world 99% of the time, but I would never want to be a stranger with him alone in a room.

 

[riffy]

Loki (em) won't let ANYONE in the yard or house without me giving the "they're ok" command. He won't even let people he knows in if I'm not home. Found that out the fun way asking my neighbor to grab something out of my house. Loki just wouldn't let him in, was kinda surprised Loki sees him every day. Considering I have a doggie door he fits thru, it's prolly a good thing, I don't even bother locking that door. When we're not at home, he's the biggest sweety though towards people. He started doing all this after someone tried to break in one night. He chased them over the fence and ever since he patrols & guards the house & yard. He didn't bark or growl once at the guy but Sophie sure did, she barked from a distance while Loki ran straight for the guy. Took hours for him to stop checking every room in the house over & over. Strutting around the house the entire time like he was so proud of himself.

Sophie (lab) on the other hand, is just LOUD! She'll bark & growl and put on a show like she's got rabies. It's all show though, get to close and she just backs away. In the car... OMG! No one can come near the car without her going nuts. She looks & sounds so vicious when she does it. Loki is now picking this up, he's now pretty vocal. I think he's gotten a lot more confidence now, Loki was such a timid puppy. He was scared of a lot of things, now he's more curious than anything.

Between the 2 of them, nothing goes unnoticed. Smallest noise and they're out the doggie door in seconds to check it out. I think last year they stopped someone from stealing something out of the next door neighbor's yard. They barked in that, you know something's up bark and woke me & the neighbors up to see someone running off. Loki has also put himself between me & people arguing or just acting weird before on walks too. I think if anything tried to do anything to me he wouldn't hesitate to knock them down. Loki has turned into more of a guard dog than I ever thought he would ever be. Never even crossed my mind when I got him that EMs would ever "guard".

 

[hausdad]

I have to chime in here and say that my 3 year old mastiff is an awesome gaurd dog. Maybe sometimes too much so at times.
I believe it is dog specific not breed.

 

[Lee Robinson]

As a person that has bred and trained personal protection dogs for 13 years, has Bacholor and Master degrees in Animal Sciences, and has studied canine animal behavior and genetics extensively, has own many varieties of mastiffs, has produced multiple generation of bandogs...with one of the longest lasting bandog type programs in the country...and has worked many of the other more traditional protection breeds out there...I can say hype is unfortunately far too common in a any breed.

I would guess 90% of the Mastiffs out there to be of very little use in terms of protection work other than simply an occational bark OR deterent. Most bandog breeders tend to side towards the Neapolitan, and point blank...neapolitans as a general rule are just not in the same league as a good EM.

I have owned two high quality EM that WERE of working quality, Eclipse and Caesar. I have also owned Tosa and Neapolitans. I have owned crosses of APBT with EM, Tosa, DDB, AB, Great Dane, and Neapolitan. Eclipse was the better of the two, but I had her prior to having good digital camera. I think we have one video of her is all. The rest are photos. There are a few videos of Caesar, which while was inferior to Eclipse, was still a top notch working EM in every regard...and one that a criminal better not test unless they have a weapon or wish to pay for that mistake with their life.

I wish mastiffs like Caesar and Eclipse were more common. I wouldn't mind having another one like Eclipse. You can look them up on youtube if you want...just type in Chimera Kennels Eclipse...or Chimera Kennels Caesar.