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Getting neutered

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
I have read the links and articles and but much of what is written is very akin to "if you shave your facial hair it will grow back thicker." I have seen several posts on various mastiff forums attributing their dogs size, weight and muscle tone to early neutering. That is ridiculous! There is no way to prove your dog would have grown larger had they not been neutered at an early age.

How many times do we have to say it. Its not that they don't grow LARGER, its that it causes JOINT ISSUES AND THE GROWTH PLATES DON"T CLOSE. Are you actually reading what people are posting?? Infact because the growth plates don't close properly dogs that are neutered early often have longer bones, ie: BIGGER.
 
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CowboyBebop

Well-Known Member
I have read the links and articles and but much of what is written is very akin to "if you shave your facial hair it will grow back thicker." I have seen several posts on various mastiff forums attributing their dogs size, weight and muscle tone to early neutering. That is ridiculous! There is no way to prove your dog would have grown larger had they not been neutered at an early age.

Actually look at any castrated mammal vs an intact and you will see a difference. Bull vs Steer, Stallion vs Gelding, Eunuch vs Man. Or just read an endocrinology book on the importance of testosterone in sexual development.
 

ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
http://pawprintskc.com/wordpress/wp...-effects-of-spay-neutering-dogs-too-early.pdf

Spay/neuter of immature dogs delays the closure of the growth plates in bones that are still growing,
causing those bones to end up significantly longer than in intact dogs or those spay/neutered after
maturity50. Since the growth plates in various bones close at different times, spay/neuter that is done after
some growth plates have closed but before other growth plates have closed might result in a dog with
unnatural proportions, possibly impacting performance and long term durability of the joints.

Now how does that say the dog is stunted. It doesn't. But if you read the whole study it very explicitly states that early spay/neuter seriously increases the risk for a large number of joint and bone issues.
 

charger02

Well-Known Member
Actually I have. Do you think putting something in caps gets your point across? Do you yell at someone in person if you disagree with them? I am going to say you probably don't. So why are you doing it here....is it because its the internet and you can get away with it?

I have read both sides of the argument, I haven't seen anything to convince me other than circumstantial evidence. Growth plate closure? How can you prove the dogs would have not had the problems had they not been fixed?
 

bruno12

Well-Known Member
I'm confused as to how people think cutting off crucial development hormones...while an animal is still developing... Will not affect them in a negative way. It just seems like common sense to me. Would you do that to a human male going through puberty? I know its a weird comparison but kinda along the lines. Of course there will be issues.

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charger02

Well-Known Member
Actually look at any castrated mammal vs an intact and you will see a difference. Bull vs Steer, Stallion vs Gelding, Eunuch vs Man. Or just read an endocrinology book on the importance of testosterone in sexual development.

As crazy as it sounds I have read military accounts of eunuch's who were pretty large and good fighters.
 

bruno12

Well-Known Member
Charger, all you need is research and comparison to prove that it affects the dogs negatively. I am sure scientists did not pull the info out of their butts. Lol

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ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Get a vasectomy if you're worried about pregnancies, and not so much the secondary sex habits such as marking, humping, etc.

vasectomy for the male or the canine equivelent of tube tying for her would solve the puppy problem completely and leave the horomones intact for the dogs to mature.

---------- Post added at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 PM ----------

As crazy as it sounds I have read military accounts of eunuch's who were pretty large and good fighters.

I give up, he's not reading a damn thing anyone posts is he?
 

charger02

Well-Known Member
Charger, all you need is research and comparison to prove that it affects the dogs negatively. I am sure scientists did not pull the info out of their butts. Lol

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Oh I agree, but they have an agenda. Like I have said I have read articles (written by scientists) that have refuted what has been posted on this site. So who is right?
 

angelbears

Well-Known Member
Actually, I have not seen much written on the benefits of early neutering lately, except for population control. I would be interested in reading it. Could you pleas provide a link.
 

bruno12

Well-Known Member
I would just assume that someone who knows that there is a GOOD chance it could cause their dog a life of pain would hold off on the surgery, you know? On confused as to why someone would take the chance is all, unless you absolutely have no other choice, for some reason.

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charger02

Well-Known Member
then stop saying that we're saying that early neutering stunts the dog, cause we aren't

No you are just advocating what someone has written on the internet and discourage someone who does not necessarily fall in line with your group think.
 
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Jadotha

Well-Known Member
Here is a scientific review by Rutgers University of over 50 peer reviewed, published articles on the long term effects of spay/neutering. I think this is what Cowboyflop and Smart_Family are referencing. I would really have a look at it, before making your final decision. http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

Anecdotally, in over two decades of keeping giant breeds (GDs, IWHs and now an EM) we have never neutered, and we have kept between two and four intact males in our home with no problems. Our dogs have not turned into Godzilla when they matured. None of our dogs has ever had severe arthritis or osteosarcoma (or other cancers). On the other hand, our adopted IWH, who was neutered (obviously too early), is tall and lanky, with spindly versus strong, dense bones. At six yrs old, he suffers from arthritis in virtually every joint to the point that he has trouble walking up stairs.

@ charger
It is not the case of their becoming underdeveloped, in terms of weight and size. My IWH is over 38" tall and weighs 190 lbs. It is a matter of the insufficiency of their skeletal structure -- and their ability to carry their weight without developing issues. Also, neutering at any age is increasingly linked to osteosarcoma.
 
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ruthcatrin

Well-Known Member
Now that is something I don't know. I just did a search for the pro's and con's of early neutering.

So instead of telling us how wrong we are how about you double check that? A HUGE number of such studies are done on dogs the size of Labs, GSDs and other more "average" sized (and smaller) popular breeds. These breeds stop growing sooner than most large to giant breeds. IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE.
 

CowboyBebop

Well-Known Member
As crazy as it sounds I have read military accounts of eunuch's who were pretty large and good fighters.

Yes, they tend to grow larger (taller), but softer (fatter). It doesn't mean inferiority, just that there is a difference in development. I personally don't care when a person chooses to fix their pet. But I think vets downplay/ignore the effects that it has in order to promote "responsible pet ownership". My wife said as long as Castel behaves we can keep him intact. I agree with her, but regardless he is getting clipped after 2 years of age. As he is mostly done growing now.