Getting neutered

[angelbears]

Now that is something I don't know. I just did a search for the pro's and con's of early neutering.

So your knowledge comes from the internet??

 

[charger02]

I never said you were wrong, check my posts. I have only questioned your research just like you have questioned mine.

 

[ruthcatrin]

No you are just advocating what someone has written on the internet and discourage someone who does not necessarily fall in line with your group think.

No, I'm advocating scientific studies done that have looked at the effects of spaying/neutering on dog based on where in the dogs growth period the surgery was done. Yes the link I provided is off of someone's blog, thats because the originial text of the study is not easily linked to. I HAVE read the original text and it says the same thing.

 

[ruthcatrin]

I never said you were wrong, check my posts. I have only questioned your research just like you have questioned mine.

at least I'm posting my links and responding to what people are saying instead of insisting that they're saying something they're not

 

[charger02]

So your knowledge comes from the internet??

Oh absolutely, and I am not advocating that it is the gospel. I am just trying to point out that there is another school of thought. Now which one is right.....beats me. But just because a bunch of internet commando's type something doesn't make it true.

 

[CowboyBebop]

vasectomy for the male or the canine equivelent of tube tying for her would solve the puppy problem completely and leave the horomones intact for the dogs to mature.

---------- Post added at 07:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 PM ----------


Thanks for clarifing that Ruth, I forgot to mention that.

 

[ruthcatrin]

Oh absolutely, and I am not advocating that it is the gospel. I am just trying to point out that there is another school of thought. Now which one is right.....beats me. But just because a bunch of internet commando's type something doesn't make it true.

Then post your links to your studies that you find more compelling. Cause everyone I've seen, that has actually looked at giant breeds, or has looked at dogs in general based on where in their growth they are instead of just their age, has said exactly what I'm saying.

 

[charger02]

at least I'm posting my links and responding to what people are saying instead of insisting that they're saying something they're not

Here is one of the articles that I read a while ago, it discusses many issues with neutering but plate growth and muscle growth are not included.

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/spayneut.html

 

[ruthcatrin]

actually this line:

Dogs neutered before puberty tend to have longer legs, flatter chests, and narrower skulls that intact dogs of their breeds because the hormones that regulate sexual activity also interact with hormones that guide growth of muscles, bones, and tendons.

Thats the growth plates being affected. No, they don't get into scientific detail, but thats the growth plates, and muscle growth...

---------- Post added at 08:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 PM ----------

And to my complete amusement this link, that is one of their resources: http://www2.dcn.org/orgs/ddtc/sfiles/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf Is the exact same article I posted earlier in this thread. And it DOES specifically mention all that...

 

[ruthcatrin]

And to my complete amusement this link, that is one of their resources: http://www2.dcn.org/orgs/ddtc/sfiles/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf Is the exact same article I posted earlier in this thread. And it DOES specifically mention all that...

 

[charger02]

actually this line:



Thats the growth plates being affected. No, they don't get into scientific detail, but thats the growth plates, and muscle growth...

---------- Post added at 08:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 PM ----------

And to my complete amusement this link, that is one of their resources: http://www2.dcn.org/orgs/ddtc/sfiles/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf Is the exact same article I posted earlier in this thread. And it DOES specifically mention all that...

You are correct in the cross referencing of the links. I guess its a forgone conclusion that if your dog is neutered before 18 months he will develop abnormally. I stand corrected.

I am glad I could amuse you tonight

 

[Sadies Mom]

Well, I guess we can use Sadie as "an experiment". I had her spayed early, because I just didn't know. It was at the recommendation of my vet. Her argument was, it was safer to have her under anesthesia at 60 lbs vs. 150lbs. I trusted her recommendation and did it. Again, I did not know about the growth plates not closing properly. And I trusted her since she has giants her self, and I have been going to her for years with my other dog. So, is there anything I can do to help the process or is it to late for Sadie? Sorry, if I Hijacked the tread......

 

[ruthcatrin]

I'm not saying its a forgone conclusion, but you are signifigantly increasing the risks.

Look, if the dog has testicular cancer at the age of 1yr neuter him cause its better that he risk joint issues later than dies of cancer that young. If one of his testicles hasn't dropped, signigantly increasing the risk of testicular cancer, then I feel you should seriously consider neutering early. If he's 1yr old and has severe aggression issues against other male dogs thats signifigantly worse in the presence of a female and you worked with a trainer and you're just not getting anywhere, I completely understand the need to neuter him early. But do so understanding the risks involved to his health and general well being later in life.

 

[Smart_Family]

Well, I guess we can use Sadie as "an experiment". I had her spayed early, because I just didn't know. It was at the recommendation of my vet. Her argument was, it was safer to have her under anesthesia at 60 lbs vs. 150lbs. I trusted her recommendation and did it. Again, I did not know about the growth plates not closing properly. And I trusted her since she has giants her self, and I have been going to her for years with my other dog. So, is there anything I can do to help the process or is it to late for Sadie? Sorry, if I Hijacked the tread......

At this point diet and making sure she doesn't have too much strenuous exercise is key. You want to discourage excessive running and jumping and make sure you stick to the feeding recommendations on her food to avoid too much calcium and phosphorus.

 

[CowboyBebop]

Well, I guess we can use Sadie as "an experiment". I had her spayed early, because I just didn't know. It was at the recommendation of my vet. Her argument was, it was safer to have her under anesthesia at 60 lbs vs. 150lbs. I trusted her recommendation and did it. Again, I did not know about the growth plates not closing properly. And I trusted her since she has giants her self, and I have been going to her for years with my other dog. So, is there anything I can do to help the process or is it to late for Sadie? Sorry, if I Hijacked the tread......

Give her to the lions and start over, JK lol!

 

[angelbears]

Well said, Ruth!

 

[Sadies Mom]

At this point diet and making sure she doesn't have too much strenuous exercise is key. You want to discourage excessive running and jumping and make sure you stick to the feeding recommendations on her food to avoid too much calcium and phosphorus.

Should I supplement with glucosamine/condrointin or something like that, or would that just make things worse?

 

[ruthcatrin]

Well, I guess we can use Sadie as "an experiment". I had her spayed early, because I just didn't know. It was at the recommendation of my vet. Her argument was, it was safer to have her under anesthesia at 60 lbs vs. 150lbs. I trusted her recommendation and did it. Again, I did not know about the growth plates not closing properly. And I trusted her since she has giants her self, and I have been going to her for years with my other dog. So, is there anything I can do to help the process or is it to late for Sadie? Sorry, if I Hijacked the tread......

Unfortunetly not uncommon, so many of the early work done looking at spay/neuter didn't take giant breeds into consideration. Plus alot of it took on political notes that pushed the "ok" age even earlier. And many vets are completely un-aware of the more recent studies looking at them. Heck, its been common knowledge among vets that early spay OFTEN causes incontinence, but very few vets will TELL that to the owner of a young female when they're pushing to get her spayed. But a year later they go back to the vet cause she's "leaking urine when she sits" and get told thats normal for the age she was spayed at.

I'd highly recommend joint supplements, or chicken feet. And possibly some omega oil supplements. I'm not sure theres much to be done about the cancer or thyroid risks but I'll do some digging. Definetly look at keep her slim too.

 

[charger02]

Before you start worrying too much I would discuss your concerns with your vet. Then I would check out what they say and see if it applies to Sadie.

ETA, have you contacted your breeder with your concerns?

 

[Smart_Family]

Yea I agree with Ruth. The supplements can't hurt. To be honest, I don't know that your vet is the best resource being that they were so gungho to spay early but I agree with asking your breeder if possible.