ruthcatrin
Well-Known Member
Did you ever try peanut butter smeared inside a bowl and frozen? Or stuffable kongs with the same concept? Would that give you at least the few minutes to go to the bathroom?
Have you enlisted help from a trainer that has worked with Guardian breeds. If you say he has not worked with any dogs that guard than what makes him an expert on deciding if Tessa is guarding or not?Quote:
"And yup, you're right. She thinks. She remembers. She lays in wait. And she's not going to goof off infront of a stranger, or at least "non-family", cause she has to be able to watch them." Unquote
This^^^
No one believes me.
No, I do not know if Tessa is a TM or some other independent breed mix (yet)--
But this *IS* exactly what she does.
Now if trainers can't accept what I am explaining-how can I trust their instruction?
Here's an example--trainer thinks he's showing me some incredible smartness by showing me to throw a treat & say "get up" & that this will train Tessa to "get up"...
OF COURSE Tessa gets up to get the treat--EVERY TIME--Where is the rocket science?!
Of couse she gets up-she's food driven-
I try to explain to the trainer that this method is counter productive to Tessa's thinking--
Here is how Tessa works:
If I continue to use this method, Tessa will ONLY get up for food, & this reinforces the fact that she stay put unless there IS A TREAT, which is NOT how I need her to be. She isn't getting a connection to motivate to 'get up'--
Nope, Tessa knows if she doesn't listen & get up, she will be given a treat. That is how she thinks. She is patient enough to wait for the *lure* or *bribe*--because using this method, that is what the treat ultimately ends up being, a lure or bribe.
It ends up being Tessa that controlls the situation, not vice versa.
I am not against using treats-I'm all for them--but in the example above, the trainer doesn't seem to grasp my need for her to motivate to get up without always having to have food in my hand.
Simply put, he doesn't understand the reality of my world when she won't 'get up' & i do not think he has ever really deal with this issue, because mostly he is trying to teach people to get their dogs to settle down. MOST people wish their dogs would just lay down, that's a fact.
While trainer has shown me some of Tessa's subtle cues--I think he is so far off from what is really going on & is misinterperating everything.
Also, he doesn't get or believe JUST HOW OBSERVANT Tessa actually is.
I feel Tessa & I are being dismissed.
Example:
Tessa scans a new environment QUICKLY. She takes note of everything-immediately. I am telling you--she committs to memory every item she sees in a room, or at a park, I've watched her do this from the day I brought her home.
She sits or stands by me, & when Tessa feels everything is OK, with/for ME, then she will further explore, leaving my side to sniff or look.
Trainer interperates this as Tessa being distracted & not paying attention, because she is not sitting there focused & staring directly at ME.
***I think he is dead wrong***
Tessa assesses the perimeter around me 1st. I see it--and I'm the freakin dummy here on this forum, but I can see this much!!!
When she decides it's OK, then she will leave my side.
Once Tessa feels it's ok, only then she'll wander & further check out stuff.
And the perimeter gets wider as she assesses the security of it.
At no time is Tessa unaware of what I am doing even when she is not looking directly at me.
Trainer says this is not true--if her eyes are not on me, she is not focused on me.
I believe Tessa focuses 1st, makes a decision, then explores further, while maintaining focus on what I am doing even if she is not looking at me.
Each exploration gets a little further. I do not believe Tessa's exploration is her being distracted, I believe she is further assessing the environment-and I also believe the reason she is assessing the environment is specifically because she IS FOCUSED ON ME .
I believe this because I cannot sneak away from this pooch if I tried--whether her eyes are on me or not. I *Have* tested this.
She has peripheral vison, keen hearing & sense of smell--and she appears to use all of them & I can't sneak away even if she's sleeping anymore.
I get the distinct impression that the trainer thinks the above example is what I want to believe--versus what he is trying to tell me is happening. He even said almost as much.
Anyone's opinion???
In my 'last life' with a different breed of pooch, with people pleasers, I would have totally bought into:
"if the dogs eyes are not on you--they are not paying attention to you" train of thought.
Because I have even only known that type of pooch, & independent wasn't in any of my previous pooches genetics, if their eyes weren't on me they were not focused on me.
However, with Tessa, my gut is telling me this is not the case at all.
It is hard when a professional is telling you one thing, & your gut another.
Admittedly, I have no experience with independent breeds & how they work, and well,
***I***am having trouble deferring to the trainer's opinion--
My gut doesn't trust he fully "gets" what Tessa is doing.
I feel he is reading Tessa's focus as distraction.
I feel this is a huge mistake.
Also, he trains a lot of german short haired pointers & remarked about how independent of a breed they are.
I didn't know any different, so I did some reading, & unless I am mistaken, german short haired pointers are not an independent breed.
Yes, they are stubborn, but not independent, plenty of regular pooches are stubborn, doesn't mean they are independent is what I am saying.
For another example--when she is in the yard, I close the door & curtains on the sliding glass door because she will stay there watching everything inside if I do not.
She feels the vibration of my feet walking towards the door, or she smells me despite the closed door & knows when I am there. I have tried many ways to try to sneak to this closed door so I can observe her when she thinks I am not watching her--but within a few seconds-Bam! she knows I am there, even if she cannot see me.
I think despite how subtle Tessa's cues may be, even though I am not experienced with her type of breed, I think my gut is right about what she is doing--I don't think I am in denial or just wanting to think these are the things she is doing-It's what she's shown me from the beginning.
I think a distracted dog would run off exploring immediately without concern for me or my perimeter.
Also enter in the fact that trainer doesn't believe Tessa has any guardian type breed in her & because she is so low reactive, he doesn't think she'd take any aggressive action, especially how soft she is with me & in my presence.
He mentioned he thought she didn't have a guardian bone in her body...
So, there's my gut, & there's the trainer, a professional--and I'm wondering-
Is it me??? Or does he have this ALL wrong?
I think she secures my perimeter, he thinks she's distracted.
I think she's making decisions, he thinks she isn't thinking at all.
I think she's aware of my every move, & he seems to think that it's only my wishful thinking.
I also think he equates low reactivity to be non-guardian & therefore no issues.
I feel the issues I need addressed are not being taken seriously, & I went to a trainer to be proactive, & to not waste good time for additional training if Tessa is a guardian breed.
If Tessa ends up being some lab/hound mix, of course I suppose he'd be right & I will have egg all over my face.
But I don't even care about that--I care about being responsible.
But also in my gut, I don't think that's the case, because I've never seen a dog do what she does--& the only place I've read about the same things is here & on a few LGD sites.
I can somewhat understand what your feeling. When I got my EM I knew I was getting a laid back low energy dog, I just didn't expect that I would get that dog at 11 weeks. All he wanted to do was eat and sleep anything else seemed to be done because I wanted to do it and he just accepted that. That was his normal until he was 6 months old and then it was like a switch got flipped and all of a sudden he was the puppy that I expected from the beginning. It could be that her 'puppy ness' is just delayed.
This is very different than just a sleepy mellow pup.
I've had mellow pooches before. Pups need sleep so they can grow-no matter if a toy or a giant.
This is related to whatever breed(s) Tessa is-it's a temperament & instinct thing, not just a mellow pup thing.
If you've experienced mellow pups, this is on a whole 'nother intensity level.
Honestly, I'm with the others who explain if you've not experienced it, you're not really gonna understand it.
There's a seriousness & a very un-puppy like aspect that goes beyond a very mellow puppy.
Now, Tessa is 6 months. I think I am honestly starting to accept that this is a LGD type of temperament, & agree with Ruth, whether Tessa is TM or some other LGD type-because from what i've read here & on various LGD sites, it FITS her behavior.
It is the starangest type of thing--like she was born pre-trained for certain things, already knowing, and that's just not possible, so it must be instinctual & genetic.
.......
Lately it's been behind the curtains, which can be a pain when she rolls over, have had to reinforce the curtain brackets.
Or she stuffs herself under the sofa but she's too tight in there & gets too warm now.
.....At 1st she hid them LOL rearranged the sofa cushions to get a good hiding spot underneath & put the cushions back--no kidding--wasn't perfectly arranged-but pretty close for not having thumbs!!! But she wasn't really satisfied with that, I have danish sofas, so often the bone will drop to the floor thru the webbing, & this displeases her....
........
Also, when she finds food (read:steals), if it's in a container, or baggie, she brings it to me-most times...
I did find a zip lock baggie full of treats that she hid in the corner next to her crate--saving it for later...
........
Tessa's worst theivery offense lately was she stole my 1/2 seafood calzone when I moved to answer the phone.
There she is with the whole thing in her mouth, not eating it. Just holding it looking at me.
I admit here, for all the world to see, YES!!!!---I took back my calzone & yes, I ate it...
It was a $15 pie & I waited all week for my Friday treat, wasn't damaged, & I am no worse for the wear.
She got to the fan chord Tuesday, it was plugged in & running since it was almost 100 degrees--
in a split second, we were in the same room, she chomped it & ripped it from the wall.
I do not know if she got zapped, she did not make any noise.
But it was bitten, completely in 1/2 leaving the plug in the outlet.
Maybe it sounds wrong, but now that the situation is over, I'm thinking if she did get a good zap-maybe that's a good thing & will deter her. In the mean time, I need to figure out how to deal with it.
Jumping up and climbing on things is normal for TM pups, my boy used to jump up on the kitchen table and just sit there watching for us to walk through the door.
Not a very good photo, lol can't believe how much he has changed since January.
View attachment 28343
He seems to have grown out of it (fingers crossed)