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to spay or not to spay

J

Joe Flynn

Well-Known Member
I have come to a realization. I will not be able to keep my presa and my newborn. I guess the new borns gota go! Seriously though, I am uncomfortable with Lady's energy and the potential for her to hurt my son on accident. I tried to re home her with a guy I know who re-homes rotties from russia but the lady he sent to evaluate Lady did not know s***t about dominant dogs. First thing she did was lean over and try to pet lady, I mean her face was like less than a foot and a half from lady's head. Lady could have knocked this lady's teeth out before she could blink. Then this lady was taken back by my dogs size and level of training... So needless to say it didn't work out on either side of the deal. I am now wondering if I get Lady spayed, will it help calm her down? I don't really know what to do at this point. My wife and I got pregnant one month after I got Lady. Lady does not have an issue with my son, I just don't feel it's a viable long term situation... Thoughts?
 
Oscar'sMom

Oscar'sMom

Well-Known Member
Has Lady shown bad behavior around your son? Or dominant behavior? Have you thought about bringing in a trainer before you go so far as to re home?
 
EverythingEnglishMastiff

EverythingEnglishMastiff

Got Mastiff?
What do you mean by level of training? I'm assuming that means little to none? That is what would create a problem. Why not try and work with a trainer to get her under control? My EM's are huge and they are wonderful around children. It takes time and training. Why someone from russia? lol. Don't you live in Virginia? If working with a trainer is not an option please find a Rescue in your area. Prefferably one that is used to working with mastiffs and/or large breeds.
 
Boxergirl

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
How old is Lady and how old is your son? You say that she is fine with the baby. Would you mind explaining why you feel that keeping her isn't a viable long term situation?
 
J

Joe Flynn

Well-Known Member
EverythingEnglishMastiff said:
What do you mean by level of training? I'm assuming that means little to none? That is what would create a problem. Why not try and work with a trainer to get her under control? My EM's are huge and they are wonderful around children. It takes time and training. Why someone from russia? lol. Don't you live in Virginia? If working with a trainer is not an option please find a Rescue in your area. Prefferably one that is used to working with mastiffs and/or large breeds.
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No, actually it was quite the opposite. Lady is fairly well trained, and did all her commands on Q. I was trying to use these people b/c I have a connection to them. But now I see they are no professionals.
 
J

Joe Flynn

Well-Known Member
Boxergirl said:
How old is Lady and how old is your son? You say that she is fine with the baby. Would you mind explaining why you feel that keeping her isn't a viable long term situation?
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Well, she is a dominant girl. She is 16 months. I am worried that even if she does fine with MY son (who is 3 months), what about his friends in a couple of years? Also my wife is not as.... assertive as me. therefore Lady does not listen as well to her. Lady wants to put her teeth on you when she is excited. This behavior is unacceptable and is worse with people the less she knows them.
 
J

Joe Flynn

Well-Known Member
Boxergirl said:
Can you please give examples of what you mean when you say she is dominant?
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well, it's not as bad with me as with my wife, but even with me she is always testing. Some of the things she does: she steps on your feet. she rams you with her nose, she pulls at your clothes, she will paw at you with her weight usually (rather than with her claws but the claws do make contact, and is DA unless the other dog is super submissive.
 
Boxergirl

Boxergirl

Well-Known Member
I don't think any of those are dominant behaviors. Putting her teeth on you when she's excited is most likely arousal. Most of the others are plain rudeness. She's still a baby herself, at 16 months. I think you need to step up the training. Not commands, although it's always good to continue working those, but impulse control and focus training. Work on a place command and build up the time she stays there. Find a good positive reinforcement trainer to work with you. Those are places to start, if you want to keep her. As for spaying - that won't likely do anything for her energy level, but I would encourage spaying after 18 months. Pyometra scares me.
I seem to recall that you had another dog too. Perhaps a Presa mix male? How is he doing?
 
J

Joe Flynn

Well-Known Member
Boxergirl said:
I don't think any of those are dominant behaviors. Putting her teeth on you when she's excited is most likely arousal. Most of the others are plain rudeness. She's still a baby herself, at 16 months. I think you need to step up the training. Not commands, although it's always good to continue working those, but impulse control and focus training. Work on a place command and build up the time she stays there. Find a good positive reinforcement trainer to work with you. Those are places to start, if you want to keep her. As for spaying - that won't likely do anything for her energy level, but I would encourage spaying after 18 months. Pyometra scares me. I seem to recall that you had another dog too. Perhaps a Presa mix male? How is he doing?
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Could you give me any examples of what would be considered "dominant behavior" in a dog? I may be misunderstanding what it is. He is good, submissive to her for the most part. Obsessed with fetch, and getting the water from the hose. Listens pretty well and is not as high energy lvl as lady in the house.
 
T

tmricciuto

Well-Known Member
I'm going to chime in, although I am not as knowledgeable as others on the forum. I have two sisters, 8 1/2 months, and was having some of the same issues with the bigger energetic girl. I am working with them both on understanding where they are space wise, and with a place command. I worked with a trainer on manners when people come in the house and walking on the leash but she was able to give me some real insights.1. I was talking to them way too much and it all became background noise. Now I normally give hand signals for commands and will only talk to them to get their attention. The great thing about this approach is that they now look to me frequently to see what they should be doing.2. I was not making them work for things like food. I was just giving them food and they had to do nothing for it. Now in the summer they go for walks before food (we live in AZ and the ground is too hot early for them to walk), or they have to go through a series of commands before they eat.3. They were not getting enough exercise and this affected them listening to me and how they controlled their impulses. Now I can't walk them together because it's too much for me to control, but they each get a 40 - 45 min walk in the am and a 30 - 40 min walk in the pm. They are so much better behaved when they are just good and tired.
 
Igni06

Igni06

Well-Known Member
Boxergirl said:
I don't think any of those are dominant behaviors. Putting her teeth on you when she's excited is most likely arousal. Most of the others are plain rudeness. She's still a baby herself, at 16 months. I think you need to step up the training. Not commands, although it's always good to continue working those, but impulse control and focus training. Work on a place command and build up the time she stays there. Find a good positive reinforcement trainer to work with you. Those are places to start, if you want to keep her. As for spaying - that won't likely do anything for her energy level, but I would encourage spaying after 18 months. Pyometra scares me. I seem to recall that you had another dog too. Perhaps a Presa mix male? How is he doing?
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I totally agree with Boxergirl. My presa puppy was very mouthy. Every time she got excited she just started ripping the clothes of me. She really gave us a hard time. I had bruises all over my body from her for months, and a lot of torn clothes as well. As Boxergirl said earlier I too think that arousal was the problem. She just got herself worked up into this frenzy. And while she was in this state it was very hard to snap her out of it. I spent a lot of time with her working on that problem and progress was pretty slow at first but then she started doing really well. All this is in the past now and Lola is a way more calm and easier to control. She is 17 months now and to this day she never showed me any aggression. I wish you the best of luck with your girl!
 
DennasMom

DennasMom

Well-Known Member
I hope you can make it work. There is nothing better (IMHO) for a young human than to grow up with the unconditional love of a dog... loving a dog builds empathy as well as a strong immune system, too!
 
J

Joe Flynn

Well-Known Member
So, what I am gathering from my fellow presa owners who have kids, is they are comfortable with a dog of this magnitude being around them and there friends?
 
J

Joe Flynn

Well-Known Member
Igni06 said:
I totally agree with Boxergirl. My presa puppy was very mouthy. Every time she got excited she just started ripping the clothes of me. She really gave us a hard time. I had bruises all over my body from her for months, and a lot of torn clothes as well. As Boxergirl said earlier I too think that arousal was the problem. She just got herself worked up into this frenzy. And while she was in this state it was very hard to snap her out of it. I spent a lot of time with her working on that problem and progress was pretty slow at first but then she started doing really well. All this is in the past now and Lola is a way more calm and easier to control. She is 17 months now and to this day she never showed me any aggression. I wish you the best of luck with your girl!
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My wife has been bruised pretty bad a few times from being pawed at, but not for some months now. I've never let her actually get to the point where she is pulling on my clothes (I've been able to correct as soon as she starts to grip), but my sister who rents a room at my house has had Lady grab onto a scarf and start to pull pretty hard. I've been watching my wife get home from work and greet the dogs this past week, and it seems she is handling lady better. I would like to ask you too, what is considered dominant behavior in a dog?
 
EverythingEnglishMastiff

EverythingEnglishMastiff

Got Mastiff?
Joe Flynn said:
So, what I am gathering from my fellow presa owners who have kids, is they are comfortable with a dog of this magnitude being around them and there friends?
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What does a dog of this magnitude MEAN? A dog that's been allowed to misbehave? A dog that's not been taught what a toy is and isn't? A big dog? A mean dog? An "aggressive" dog? Pulling on your clothes is a very common puppy/adolescent behavior I've seen exhibited by 80% of the dogs I've owned. I've also had 100% of my dogs NOT do this behavior as adults. If every dog had structure and exercise, socialization, and leadership, they wouldn't exhibit so many behaviors people didn't want them to. Notice I didn't say training. You don't have to train a dog to sit, stay, shake paws, to behave. It's just easier to teach people to train their dogs in this fashion becuase it's the only way people understand. IMO IME sorry if I sound harsh, not intended that way. Just passionate =)
 
T

tmricciuto

Well-Known Member
Here is an article with some good information: http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/articles/dominatebehaviorsdogs.htmWhen I come home, or anyone enters my home they are not to look at, touch or talk to the dogs. They are to walk in and ignore them. Once the dogs have calmed down and are in a submissive state then they can interact, but if they interact when they are all hyped up nothing good comes of it. My 9 year old nephew has no problems with either of my EM pups and they are big girls.
 
J

Joao M

Well-Known Member
Joe Flynn said:
So, what I am gathering from my fellow presa owners who have kids, is they are comfortable with a dog of this magnitude being around them and there friends?
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Hi,- I have 3 kids and we have had dogs all their lifes.- I can tell you that I am much more comfortable with big dogs than with small dogs around children.- Big dogs are much more reliable and since they will not be hurt when the kids (very young ones that do not know better yet) pull their hears and so on they do not react and on contrary, they "adopt" them and tolerate that behaiour. --- Small dogs feels thretened and react.--- 2 of my 3 kids have been bitten by dogs (not our dogs, I have to stress that): my daughter by a poodle and one of my sons by a teckle.---
 
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