Honest opinions regarding litter vs no litter at all

[teodora]

I have 3 entire mastiffs - I plan to desex them when they're fully grown for their and our peace of mind. Dealing with the girls on heat and the male crying his head off is truly a nightmare. Now, a lot of our friends incessantly chase us for a puppy. I explained than Jack is a Cane Corso while the girls are neo and while the puppies would certainly be 100% mastiffs, they won't be pure breeds and I'm not sure what they would take from each breed: we can end up having a huge CC or a mini neo, either way they'll be mutts. However, this aspect didn't seem to bother anyone: so the potential owners - friends or neighbours - are very keen anyway. Now I had no intention to breed but before I rule out this possibility I'd really need to know the long time implications on my dogs health: is it better for them to have a litter and then be neutered/spayed? Any benefit in this? Does it contribute or change the girls temperament or maturity in any way? I don't wanna be given the standard speech about dogs in shelter: all I'm interested in at this point is the health and temperament implications of letting my girls have a litter before being desexed. I talked to some vets and they're biased either pro or con... the kind of fanatical "too many puppies in the world" or the opposite kind - not desexing at all because it's unnatural etc. I'm very interested to provide the best conditions for my girls (and boy) to develop properly and have a long happy life so which way should I go from here?

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[season]

Id say don't breed them, but that's just me. I don't like the idea of mixing purebred dogs.


Carpe Diem

 

[Nik]

I have heard that letting dogs mate before fixing can sometimes effect the temperament and make them more aggressive in a bad way. Im not sure if there is any truth to that but maybe some members who have bred might know

Also there is a lot of cost and risk associated with breeding. It can be dangerous for your female (as any birth can be) and it will be expensive for you


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[Nik]

All that said if you lived anywhere near me and went through with it Im sure I would be tempted to get one of your puppies.

Im already getting puppy fever again but I am fighting it tooth and nail mostly because i want to stay a two dog home. Thats a good number for us




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[tlov]

Before we got a second EM I thought about breeding Xena when she was old enough. My sister has a male EM and has mentioned multiple times breeding them and that she would want a puppy. I also would've wanted to keep one, no way I would've been able to let them all go. After reading about different things that can go wrong and all the work involved I decided that breeding isn't for me. For one thing I have a stronger bond with Xena than I have with any dog I've ever had and if something happened to her because I decided to breed her I wouldn't be able to handle it. Also I would be so paranoid about the people we would potentially sell the puppies to and worried about them. So in the end I decided to get another EM puppy and they'll both be spayed when they're old enough.


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[BrentleeSharee]

I also I'm curious as to if breeding (a male specifically) once before neutering will affect his attitude in the long run?

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[TWW]

Never breed any of my males and never had any neutered. If your going to choose both sexes, your going to have to go with what you can deal with, per spay and neuter.No dog should be breed without the proper testing being done and then looking at how they will help the breed.

 

[TWW]

Basic thing is even a health tested, everything great mastiff or mastiff breed should in some way help the breed.

Prior to Trish having her issues, when money was not a ongoing issue, had Mouse Pennhip tested, and then at 2 years took him in to have OFA hip and elbow, vet asked about and listed the other tests for mastiff, and said sure go for it. He passed them all and was clear on all.

Still have no want to breed him or neuter. Just not a me thing.

 

[teodora]

I didn't test them but their parents have been tested. I don't particularly like the idea of mixed breeds either. I would let them have a litter ONLY if there are certain benefits for my dogs - ie get their brain delivered or improve their overall health before spaying/neutering. Otherwise I'm obviously not into breeding business and I don't see myself hunting for specific sire/dame, same breed - or selling pups to strangers, it would break my heart.

 

[marke]

as far as benefits , i would say it is detrimental to the bitches health , the reasons are many including death ....... i believe it's Glen who is raising someones 5 cane corso pups at the moment due to a mom retaining a pup ..... i have had a bitch die , emergency c-sections , cystic mammary glands , mastitis .... i sure never seen a benefit to the bitch ..... the male it doesn't matter one way or the other .............

 

[gilles]

do the right thing , do not mix breeds and do not dessex them thats my opinion... you dont have to breed them if you dont want to, there is no need to fix them either... when a female is in heat just move her away its just three weeks . if you decide to breed them then find a CC female for the male and Neo males for the female.

 

[gilles]

then breed them whenever you are ready for it , you have plenty of time , ybetter not to breed them before they are 2 years old anyway

 

[JamieHalverson]

There is zero health benefit in reproduction and significant risk to your girls. The health benefots are realized with delaying spay/neuter, but not in having a litter. There's an old wives tale that a bitch should have one litter before spaying for health reasons, but nothing behind that.

 

[teodora]

There's an old wives tale that a bitch should have one litter before spaying for health reasons, but nothing behind that.

Yep that's exactly what I've heard and the reason of this topic... When I desex them I can't undo it, and I don't want to find out later that it wasn't the best for them. Regarding keeping them entire...I'd gladly do it if it wasn't so bad. The girls have different periods of heat - so theoretically every 3 months we go through it. We need to keep Jack on calmex holistic medication and the girl with the problem on the other side of the paddock alone, which makes her anxious and howling all night - and they STILL break through walls and metal crates to get to each other. Jack doesn't eat when I'm not around - simple as that. If I let him 3 weeks in a kennel, he'll be more dead than alive. I didn't find any kennels yet that would take neapolitans on heat. Let's say that i'd be able to cope with it: but it's a nightmare for all 3 dogs as well.

 

[JamieHalverson]

Personally, if it were not managable, I would neuter Jack when age appropriate and spay the girls later or consider an ovary sparring spay for them. I'm lucky in that Yogi was a rescue and neutered when we adopted him, so wasn't something I had tonworry about. Lillie hasn't had a heat yet...

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[teodora]

Jack is 19 months - he'd probably be the right age for desexing in few months. The fact that Jack is entire doesnt bother me very much otherwise, he's not male to male aggressive or a nuisance in any way. He marks trees - but that's all he does. I can probably fix him and then fix the girls or keep him entire and fix the girls next year? They're at risk during pregnancy and birth and if no real benefit for their development then why would I risk my 2 beautiful neos?

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[Boxergirl]

If I were in your position, I would not neuter Jack and spay the girls at the appropriate age. Pyometra scares me. I'm sure someone will say that they've left all of their girls intact and never had an issue. I've had several friends lose or almost lose their girls to pyo. My daughter has already seen numerous cases in the clinics she's been at and she's only been working as a tech for two years. I know I'm not willing to risk that my girl will be the one that gets pyo. It's my understanding that the risk increases as the girls age and if they have short cycles.

 

[glen]

Yes its us that's raising 5 orphaned pups, the mum did retain a dead pup and placenta,a live one was still inside but died soon after delivery, she was so poorly I didn't think she would make it, he tried for 2 weeks then we took 5,its been so hard iv had little to no sleep, the little girl was so tiny and weak we really thought she was going to cross over, but webe just sat watching all 5 round the food bowls then charging round the room playing with my big boys,I'm not one to tell people what to do and I adore your girls iv commented before how nice it is to see a neo that can actually see and move without tripping over wrinkles, so I would have a pup from you in a shot, but the heart ache you could go through is unbelievable, you could lose your girl. We have always kept our dogs intact, not Mastiffs but forties, our bitch was 13 the same as our boy, no problems with health from this.our 3 ccs will stay intact.unless anything medical crops up, I'm sorry for the long reply I just wanted to say after all this that this experience as taught me that I would never ever breed,i was heartbroken when I heard about the mum if she was mine I would've been a wreck then id have pups on top.

 

[teodora]

so sorry for poor girl! And for the poor pups without mother!I'm not keen at all to go through all the stress and associated vet bills - and I would certainly call a vet to assist the mother. Now after these messages I don't see the point to let them have puppies, really.

 

[gilles]

i know spaying is very much recommended by vets in the USA and many around the world but 1- there are methods other than full spaying.2- spaying could cause behavioral changes in females that are impossible to correct: aggressiveness, involuntary peeing (Incontinance) in giant breeds3- it will not avoid mammary cancer, this is very questionable4- its not naturalthis is my opinion, and the opinion of my friend here who is an expert in dogs and breeding especially giant breeeds like CAO,i know it can be a pain but i would not spay and just manage it when females are in heat.