Some dogs need harsh training?

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

If it doesn't kill them it will only make them stronger?

 

[marke]

If it doesn't kill them it will only make them stronger?

i've never believed that saying ......... i think you can absolutely ruin a dog with incorrect or inappropriate corrections , i've seen dogs that were made neurotic wrecks from that type of training ......... i think with glascowdogtrainers method you'd never ruin a dog . i do however think you'll run across a number of dogs and problems where a dog will need to be corrected in a negative way , and some dogs are way more sensitive to corrections than others ....for some reason avoiding negative results seem to be a stronger motivator than getting good results , probably goes back to the "you need to be alive to enjoy the flower" .......jmo

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

I was specifically referring to the wall socket. I've gotten zapped by one. It is enough to stop a person's heart from beating. I imagine also a dog of any size. I think you could ruin a dog no matter the training method. With Glasgow's method if you reinforce at the wrong moment you could be reinforcing something entirely diff than what you meant to.

 

[marke]

absolutely , electricity seems to be quite a memorable motivator ...the pup living in that pen now is 8 months and i'd bet he was shocked once in his life , the previous dog that lived in that pen died at 12 , i'd bet she was shocked once in her life ........... i think with glascowdogtrainers method you really can't "ruin" a dog , the method in some instances i believe would be harder , less reliable , and undoable for some folks , but i don't think you could mentally ruin the dog ...........with corrections , to punish a confused dog , which i've seen people do , can do mental damage to some dogs which i think sometimes can be non-repairable ......jmo

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

Speaking of harsh dog training and ruining dogs check out this lady I found. These people are paying her money!? Poor Dane! Tell me if I'm wrong...[video=youtube;g2S5mdMk-iw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2S5mdMk-iw[/video]

 

[maryl]

The Dane in that vidio will never perform well in a show ring. She's scared to death and such harsh treatment will only make her worse. They may get her to tolerate handling by strangers but she will never enjoy it and it will show in the ring.

 

[Bob Felts]

The Dane in that vidio will never perform well in a show ring. She's scared to death and such harsh treatment will only make her worse. They may get her to tolerate handling by strangers but she will never enjoy it and it will show in the ring.

H m


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[Bob Felts]

The Dane in that vidio will never perform well in a show ring. She's scared to death and such harsh treatment will only make her worse. They may get her to tolerate handling by strangers but she will never enjoy it and it will show in the ring.

Poor thing looks scared to death. And if I can see that, the so called trainer is obliviois, and a fraud. What an idiot.

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[SG1]

Maryl I don't see any harsh treatment. Please explain to me why you consider this particular method of training harsh. Bob Felts Why is this lady not only a fraud but an idiot too?

 

[Esand]

I didn't watch the whole video but skipping around you can tell that the dog is very nervous at the least and most likely terrified. Look at the tail tuck. She doesn't understand what is happening nor why.

 

[Esand]

Not to mention that is the world most useless "good girl" that the trainer keeps repeating.

 

[maryl]

SGI, look at the video again, pay attention to the way the dog is using her body, she is telegraphing her fear. Her face is tense, her tail is tucked, and she obviously doesn't trust the trainer. The trainer is also blaming the dog, saying that she is spoiled. When actually she is afraid. This dog needs to be taken to a corner of the room where she can observe every thing from a safe distance, then gradually be introduced to new people one at a time when she is ready.

 

[SG1]

I am in total agreement with your observation of the dogs behavi but the dogs fear does not equal harsh treatment. The video doesn't show if the trainer followed your advice before shooting the video and if so for how long.Would it still be harsh if the dog sat out for a yearr and watched, then brought out to be worked and still behaves the same? The dog has to be put in that situation eventually. We just don't know what transpired before the shoot to come to that conclusion,

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

I think that the two leads are harsh. Specifically when one lead is tight and she is also pulling on the other lead in an opposing fashion(----). The ladies tone of voice is harsh. The Dane is scared witless and is obviously gaining no benefit from this exercise other than to become even more scared. You can see it in it's body language. At first the Dane was ~ok. As the session went on, she visibly became more scared and even more stressed until she finally wriggled out of the both collars. Then they simply tightened them to continue the onslaught. Imo it was like she was being punished the entire time and not being taught anything. Pretty harsh. I've watched HOURS of that ladies videos. Most are disturbing to me. But even with "trainers" like her I was still able to learn things. She has decent presentation to the humans. She can make them believe she knows what she's doing. She has no idea of the poor dog's body language and her commands are ineffectual. The only control she has of the dog is via two leads.

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

One video I did somewhat enjoy of hers was The Priorities of "They"

 

[maryl]

You're right, the dog's fear does not equal harsh treatment, what it does do, is to clue the trainer that the dog should be treated much more gently than an outgoing, happy or more dominate animal. A good trainer will guide the dog with positive reinforcement and a happy relaxed attitude.

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

Most of dog training is about energy and projection of your energy to shape the energy of the animal you are working with. Fear is like a negative energy. How to make it more positive? Confidence building. Not forcing to submit, but teaching to enjoy or at the minimum acceptance. Accept of the free will not accept or else. I still am not 100% sure about this purely positive method of training because I do think that some behaviors have to be corrected. Fear is not a behavior you use a correction for IMO.

 

[SG1]

Thank you Maryl and revertingenglishmastif for the clarification.

 

[karennj]

This infuriates me! That dog is being flooded. They are taking a dog that is scared to death and forcing it into a situation. It would be like taking a toddler who is terrified of the dark and locking them in a pitch black room. I would consider that to be pretty harsh. You cannot fix fear with fear.

 

[EverythingEnglishMastiff]

My sentiments exactly karennj. Also I was trying to make a point. Harsh isn't just smacking or yelling at your dog. You can be harsh in lots of ways. Flooding isn't necessarily a bad concept imo. But in this case implemented poorly.