I'm going to get a professional behaviorist.

[elastigirl]

Why even post if your gonna have a closed mind and shut out suggestions from experienced people?

Well, first of all, I wasn't the original poster; I was just following the thread, which I'm assuming was posted in the Tibetan Mastiff section for a reason.

Second, to answer your question, I was posting to try and support broccolini who I think is really trying to do the best thing for her dog. And I don't see her being closed-minded at all, just trying to explain why certain things won't work. In fact, I'm pretty sure reading through this thread that she HAS taken some of the advice given and reported back that it worked (being stricter on walks).

I'm not sure I even defined what I felt "harsh," so not sure where you got that from either.

Whatever you've seen done with "our" breed ... would love to hear input and insight on that. That's why I'm here, to learn. But that doesn't necessarily mean that everything posted here is going to be good advice. Hell, you don't know me and I don't know you. I could be a 12 year old with a toy poodle who's just messing around. ;-)

 

[elastigirl]

The clicker training guy who worked with Malinois insisted that we could achieve 100% recall if we just worked at it.

Don't get me wrong, I love clicker training and it's lots of fun for the dogs in the house but they don't give a rat's ass about that thing outside.

Hell, sometimes nothing works outside. Not clicker training, not juicy treats, certainly not play and affection or praise. Ivy couldn't care less what I think when she's out on a mission.

I'm still working at it (every day, multiple times per day) but more often than not Ivy will ONLY come if she KNOWS I have a treat in my hand and it better be real chicken, lady. This is cool. When we are at the park, or hiking trails, she's on a leash, no matter what. When we're in the yard, she has the invisible fence collar on and a leash dragging behind her only if I'm available to supervise 100%. Otherwise, she's in the fenced area (which she loves) or on the tie-out if I'm nearby gardening and want her company without being able to watch her every minute.

She's only 5 months old and I am hoping the recall will improve in time. But I have accepted that it is extremely unlikely that it will be 100% and I am okay with that. There is nothing wrong with keeping a dog on-leash. She has plenty of room to run in the fenced area and frankly, she's not that much of a "running" dog anyhow. She's more of a "lie around and keep an eye on the perimeter" kind of dog. ;-)

 

[Ronin]

Well, first of all, I wasn't the original poster; I was just following the thread, which I'm assuming was posted in the Tibetan Mastiff section for a reason.

Second, to answer your question, I was posting to try and support broccolini who I think is really trying to do the best thing for her dog. And I don't see her being closed-minded at all, just trying to explain why certain things won't work. In fact, I'm pretty sure reading through this thread that she HAS taken some of the advice given and reported back that it worked (being stricter on walks).

I'm not sure I even defined what I felt "harsh," so not sure where you got that from either.

Whatever you've seen done with "our" breed ... would love to hear input and insight on that. That's why I'm here, to learn. But that doesn't necessarily mean that everything posted here is going to be good advice. Hell, you don't know me and I don't know you. I could be a 12 year old with a toy poodle who's just messing around. ;-)

Very true and I've only been trying to help and getting called names for it...but whatever...it doesn't hurt my feelings. And if you look back in the thread I do explain in detail things that I have seen done by OLD LADIES WHO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING...while some people here trying to give "advice" clearly do NOT...so if helps not wanted, whatever. Like I said I just hope my brother just isn't in the vicinity with his Boxers when she loses control of that powerful animal.

 

[broccolini]

I respectfully agree to disagree...I've seen it done with "your" breed. What you call "harsh" others would call humane, because the alternative can very well be euthanasia if you can't control your dog and it hurts someone or another dog. Why even post if your gonna have a closed mind and shut out suggestions from experienced people?

Ahhh...oh well...I am now blue in the face. I do wish the best of luck anyway. Especially if I'm ever in the vicinity with my dogs. My mother and brother live in WA...

Seriously?

Do you want to take a guess as to why I posted this in the TM section?

If I were closed-minded I wouldn't be getting professional help with my dog. I listen to all the advice I get. I'm just not going to blindly apply it if I think it will be detrimental to my dog's well-being. You think I need a choke chain. I know from experience with *my* dog that I do not. And I don't have anything against them. I used them with my GSDs without incident.

I think another good example of closed-mindedness is the continuous insistence that those who own TMs don't know what we are talking about when it comes to our breed.

I would never go in the Fila section and insist that Fila owners could get their dogs to allow strangers to hug them if they would just train them right. Fila owners say that Filas hate strangers and that is just part of their breed. I believe them. It's that simple. I've never owned one. I've never seen one. I've never trained one. I just accept that they are telling it like it is. When I say TM's do not respond to normal training methods it would be nice to get the same reaction. It's not like the other TM owners are chiming in and saying I'm full of shit. Do you notice how the people who actually own them tend to agree with my views on training? There is a reason for that.

I'm not lazy. I'm not ignorant. I'm not unwilling to listen to advice. I just know that some things are not going to work with my dog no matter how well they work for 99% of the other dogs.

My dog is not out of control. I feel like I've typed that a million times. I am not worried about losing control of her. I'm not afraid of her. She's just a pain in the ass and I want to help her to be less of a pain in the ass.

Sorry to single out the Fila people. Hector and Mountainfila, you've been helpful without being condescending and I do appreciate it.

 

[ruthcatrin]

If by rude you mean concerned, then you're right. You have no idea the experience I have, but I guarantee it buries your, lady. I can clearly see it from your comments...hahaha...pleeeease! Some people just have no business owning breeds that they cannot handle... Aloha

You posted that Broc doesn't want professional advice?? Ok, you're not rude, you're just not literate, cause yes, thats why the title of this thread is that she's going to get a professional behaviorist, cause she doesn't want professional advice. SHe infact didn't post this to get anyone's input on training her dog at all. She wanted input on hiring a behaviorist.

I don't really care WHAT experience you have, but you clearly can't use it when dealing with a dog outside of your experience, you think you know it all, and maybe you do, I don't know you, but you clearly haven't got a clue how to apply it when it comes to something different.

Oh and yes, even if your previous comments weren't rude, you've gone beyond that point with these last couple.

 

[mountainfila]

I for one appreciate it very much, especially being new to this breed. I'm looking forward to hearing what happens with the behaviorist/trainer. Have been a little preoccupied the past 2 days with Ivy's surgery but just trying to catch up with this thread now. I completely agree with you on the harsh training methods. One example: I had a puppy trainer come to the house 3 times to work with Ivy, when she was too little for puppy class (hadn't had enough shots). Overall this is a great trainer and I loved her. She had a lot of great behavior management techniques that were super valuable - she completely solved our puppy-biting problem which was making every human in the house completely miserable. She had some good methods. However, she hadn't worked with TMs (had encountered a few but not trained them). Some things, she really just didn't realize would NOT work with this breed. We worked on loose-leash walking one day in our yard. I explained that even with the harness on, sometimes (actually often) Ivy would sit down and refuse to move. I actually switched to the harness because the buckle collar, she'd just duck her head and pull out of. So Ivy did this little thing we used to call the "Ivy roll." She learned really quickly that the harness would get tight around her chest when I pulled the leash. So when I'd give a quick tug, to get her to move in my direction, she'd sort of do a little hop, fall on her side and roll over. I think she figured out that relieved the pressure of the harness, plus then she was lying down and I couldn't get her to go anywhere. She did this in front of the trainer and I said, "Okay, what do I do now?" The trainer told me to drag her. I just looked at her and said, "That is not going to work with Ivy." She said, sure it will, dogs hate to be dragged. Well, guess what - Ivy does in fact hate to be dragged (and I don't blame her one bit) but being a TM, she damn well did let me drag her halfway across the yard. I finally stopped and the trainer said, "Hmm. I've never seen a dog do that before."

Yep. Anyway, I'm just trying to illustrate (and agree with you, broccolini) that the harsh training methods don't necessarily work with "our" breed. And that not everyone realizes this. I myself am very guilty of coming to this forum while we were still considering whether to bring Ivy home and also finding other articles online, reading how "different" TMs are and saying, yeah, yeah, whatever. They can't be THAT different from other dogs. I learned pretty quickly that YES THEY CAN, and YES THEY ARE. I'm willing to put in as much work as it takes to train Ivy to the point that I need her to get to, while recognizing that we have limitations - with the recall, just as one example - so things are working out fine for now. She's a fabulous dog and I am completely in love with her. But anyone that tells me I'm not doing it right just might not be getting it and I suspect that might possibly be the case with some of the replies here (not flaming, just suggesting).

Anyway ... whew ... good luck and I do really want to hear how this all works out for you.

WOW your "trainer" told you to drag her???? I still dont get what everyone keeps saying about harsh training methods wont work, what are harsh methods to you guys?? So your ok with your dog not listening to you? If i was your teacher , i would not have told you to drag her, i would have had you go over and lift her to a standing position and give her a little boost from behind and a little tug on the leash to go forward, even if its only one or two steps forward, she gets a good girl, you can also try sitting in front of her and and calling to her to come to you , not drag. And just to let you in on a little secret all breeds of puppies do not like the leash, they will react the same way as your tm pup , bucking and kicking and trying to get their own way, they do it for a few mins which may seem like and eternity but if you can hold out longer then the pup, it will teach the pup its not going to get its own way. If you do give in and dont deal with it , you will get a dog that does not trust you or listen to you. And the other thing is when you train you need the proper equipment on the dog, a harness or a buckle are neither. This is a strong powerful breed and needs to be handled by a strong leader, not so much physicaly strong but def mental strong, or else this type of dog will run the show, you have to take the dominant place not the dog, no matter what breed it is, some are just more dominant then others, just takes more time on the humans part. And some people do not like to be told they are doing something wrong, its human nature to get your back up. Its just advice and she can take it or leave it, i dont think anyone is telling her shes doing it all wrong and has to do it the way we said, its up to her to try it or not.

 

[broccolini]

You posted that Broc doesn't want professional advice?? Ok, you're not rude, you're just not literate, cause yes, thats why the title of this thread is that she's going to get a professional behaviorist, cause she doesn't want professional advice. SHe infact didn't post this to get anyone's input on training her dog at all. She wanted input on hiring a behaviorist.

OMG, THANK YOU FOR BEING ABLE TO READ.

 

[chuckorlando]

ahahahahahahahahahaha. Some folks like the TM because they are that different.

 

[broccolini]

ahahahahahahahahahaha. Some folks like the TM because they are that different.

I'm coming down there to give Kona a big hug.

Start training her.

 

[Ronin]

Hahaha...now, now children...when you go to your "behaviorist" don't forget to burn some sage and hum a chant...maybe your TM will reach a state of enlightenment so you can actually control her...

 

[ruthcatrin]

WOW your "trainer" told you to drag her???? I still dont get what everyone keeps saying about harsh training methods wont work, what are harsh methods to you guys?? So your ok with your dog not listening to you? If i was your teacher , i would not have told you to drag her, i would have had you go over and lift her to a standing position and give her a little boost from behind and a little tug on the leash to go forward, even if its only one or two steps forward, she gets a good girl, you can also try sitting in front of her and and calling to her to come to you , not drag. And just to let you in on a little secret all breeds of puppies do not like the leash, they will react the same way as your tm pup , bucking and kicking and trying to get their own way, they do it for a few mins which may seem like and eternity but if you can hold out longer then the pup, it will teach the pup its not going to get its own way. If you do give in and dont deal with it , you will get a dog that does not trust you or listen to you. And the other thing is when you train you need the proper equipment on the dog, a harness or a buckle are neither. This is a strong powerful breed and needs to be handled by a strong leader, not so much physicaly strong but def mental strong, or else this type of dog will run the show, you have to take the dominant place not the dog, no matter what breed it is, some are just more dominant then others, just takes more time on the humans part. And some people do not like to be told they are doing something wrong, its human nature to get your back up. Its just advice and she can take it or leave it, i dont think anyone is telling her shes doing it all wrong and has to do it the way we said, its up to her to try it or not.

I think you're taking it out of context now? And I think we've all wandered way off Broc's original point, which was to get input on hiring a behaviorist

OMG, THANK YOU FOR BEING ABLE TO READ.

I try anyway!

 

[broccolini]

And some people do not like to be told they are doing something wrong, its human nature to get your back up.

I hope that's not directed at me. The whole point of this thread was that I wanted to be told what I'm doing wrong.

 

[broccolini]

Hahaha...now, now children...when you go to your "behaviorist" don't forget to burn some sage and hum a chant...maybe your TM will reach a state of enlightenment so you can actually control her...

Holy shit, you're an ass. Burning sage and chanting? You do realize that there is actually science behind animal behavior, right?

Did you bother to read the link I posted to her bio?

Here, because clicking is hard:

I hold a PhD in Animal Behavior from the University of Washington, and a dual BS in Biology and Psychology from the University of Michigan. For 20 years as a professor at the University of Puget Sound, I conducted research in animal learning and social behavior, and taught courses in Learning & Behavior, Animal Communication, Behavior Genetics, and Research Methods & Applied Statistics. I retired from full time teaching in 2011 and currently hold positions as Research Professor in Psychology at the University of Puget Sound and Affiliate Professor at the University of Washington.

 

[mountainfila]

I hope that's not directed at me. The whole point of this thread was that I wanted to be told what I'm doing wrong.

No not you lol i was meaning people as a whole, im just trying to help you, thats why im asking you questions, if i had my passport i would come down and help you free of charge hahahaha, well i might ask ya to cook me supper before i left hahahaha but ya i just want to help ya

 

[broccolini]

No not you lol i was meaning people as a whole, im just trying to help you, thats why im asking you questions, if i had my passport i would come down and help you free of charge hahahaha, well i might ask ya to cook me supper before i left hahahaha but ya i just want to help ya

I would totally cook for you.

Possibly roast TM if things don't go well.

 

[Ronin]

Holy shit, you're an ass. Burning sage and chanting? You do realize that there is actually science behind animal behavior, right?

Did you bother to read the link I posted to her bio?

Here, because clicking is hard:

I hold a PhD in Animal Behavior from the University of Washington, and a dual BS in Biology and Psychology from the University of Michigan. For 20 years as a professor at the University of Puget Sound, I conducted research in animal learning and social behavior, and taught courses in Learning & Behavior, Animal Communication, Behavior Genetics, and Research Methods & Applied Statistics. I retired from full time teaching in 2011 and currently hold positions as Research Professor in Psychology at the University of Puget Sound and Affiliate Professor at the University of Washington.

More names and profanity?? Come on now, miss PHD...did I call anyone any names? I truly feel sorry for your beautiful animals.

You attack me, I defend myself...human nature...just ask your behaviorist...HAHA

 

[mountainfila]

I would totally cook for you.

Possibly roast TM if things don't go well.

Or roast human hahahahaha me being the main course

 

[ruthcatrin]

More names and profanity?? Come on now, miss PHD...did I call anyone any names? I truly feel sorry for your beautiful animals.

You attack me, I defend myself...human nature...just ask your behaviorist...HAHA

good lord, you really are illiterate

 

[broccolini]

More names and profanity?? Come on now, miss PHD...did I call anyone any names? I truly feel sorry for your beautiful animals.

You attack me, I defend myself...human nature...just ask your behaviorist...HAHA

Egads, you really are a lost cause. Seriously, find some to read and translate this thread for you. Maybe it just got too complicated for you to follow along.

I'm going to find my ruler.

 

[Ronin]

Egads, you really are a lost cause. Seriously, find some to read and translate this thread for you. Maybe it just got too complicated for you to follow along.

I'm going to find my ruler.

What a sad and desperate comment by an obvious child who should NOT have a dog of ANY size...OMGoodness...God help us all...